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To: D-fendr
The universe does come with a comprehensible, unchanging set of basic laws of physics…

Does it come with a similar set of basic values right/wrong, good/evil. Do these have any intrinsic value or are the always and completely subjective and conditional?

I think it does, to the same extent that the laws of economics are universal. Such rules or principles as buy low/sell high, invest as much of your profits as you can instead of squandering them all away, the theory of comparative advantage, which helps explain the development of governments run by the rule of law as a much more efficient & rational way of securing our rights than everyone having to take total responsibility for their own safety & enforcement of contracts, etc. I see the derivation of durable moral codes for a free society as very similar, on a fundamental level, to how economic laws were derived. (I'm not saying that morality & economics are the same, but they are related on some level.)

I think of morality as objective, since we're all human beings, and as such the overwhelming majority of us have basically similar values & goals. Some kinds of acts, such as theft, clearly would cause the positive-sum game of civilization to break down if it wasn't treated as evil. But it's not always self-evident where to draw the line between acceptable differences in taste or values (vanilla vs. chocolate) and that which should be treated as beyond the pale (theft vs. non-theft). But that's where studying history, other cultures, political systems, & your own life comes in.

246 posted on 05/29/2006 10:59:48 PM PDT by jennyp (Twig-gy Twiggy, Twig-gy Twiggy, Twig-gy Twiggy, Twig-gy Twiggy)
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To: jennyp
Interesting post.

Some kinds of acts, such as theft, clearly would cause the positive-sum game of civilization to break down if it wasn't treated as evil.

So if I understand right, we treat theft as evil. It is not actually evil, we just treat it that way for our own common good. You and I, and anyone else who is sufficiently well read or astute, will realize that the evil of theft is a fiction for others. We want others to avoid theft as that hurts all, including/especially ourselves. But given the opportunity to steal successfully, you should go for it. It’s just smart.

Another approach is that there is a God. He made moral laws. We know these laws. But for moral laws, unlike physical laws, we are free to choose. Do right or do wrong. That is what it is all about.

Perhaps you should agree with me. You might fool me and and many others so we don’t steal. Meanwhile, you can plan your big score, perhaps embezzlement. I think that is rational. That would be smart.

But if it is rational, and you, talking to yourself, are not satisfied, then why not?

247 posted on 05/30/2006 7:04:12 AM PDT by ChessExpert (MSM: America's one party press)
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