The example of `Isa (Jesus) [Islamic sermon about Jesus]

Shia Sermons ^ | 24 May 2006 | Imam Ali

[BlackVeil]

If you desire I will tell you about `Isa (p.b.u.h.) son of Maryam (Mary).

He used a stone for his pillow, put on coarse clothes and ate rough food. His condiment was hunger. His lamp at night was the moon. His shade during the winter was just the expanse of earth eastward and westward. His fruits and flowers were only what grows from the earth for the cattle.

He had no wife to allure him, nor any son to give grief, nor wealth to deviate (his attention), nor greed to disgrace him. His two feet were his conveyance and his two hands his servant.

[BlackVeil]

This is from a sermon by Ali Ibn Talib, the son-in-law of Mohammed, and he is the founder of the Shia sect of Islam.

The reason I am putting it up, it out of interest. With all this "Da Vinci Code" talk about whether Jesus was married, it is interesting to note that this speaker, Imam Ali, stated that he was not. This statement would date to about the 7th century AD.

Imam Ali was a person of high reputation in his time. He would have been acquainted with both regular and gnostic versions of Christian stories. His statements would reflect the view of Jesus current in those early centuries.

If Jesus had been thought to be married, then Imam Ali would have said so - he himself considered marriage obligatory for every man. Obviously, he believes Jesus' single state to be part of his exceptional status.

[Alex Murphy]

This is from a sermon by Ali Ibn Talib, the son-in-law of Mohammed, and he is the founder of the Shia sect of Islam .... Imam Ali was a person of high reputation in his time. He would have been acquainted with both regular and gnostic versions of Christian stories. His statements would reflect the view of Jesus current in those early centuries

Yet the four gospels, written six centuries earlier by eyewitnesses to Jesus' resurrection and ascension (or by men who knew the apostles), provide us with yet a better witness as to Jesus' marital state, as well as to His ministry, His miracles, and to His person and identity overall. Rather than trust the account of someone who lived six centuries after our Lord, someone who teaches that Jesus was not God incarnate, that Jesus didn't physically die on the cross and wasn't bodily resurrected from the dead, I would suggest that the gospel writers themselves would be better witnesses with a more reliable testimony as to the person of, and events surrounding, Jesus Christ.

On an unrelated note, I've read that there's a at least one religious group that believes Ali Ibn Talib was actually a seventh-century reincarnation of the "Christ-Spirit" that in a previous reincarnation was Jesus Christ. It doesn't seem to be a widely-held belief, but I thought I'd ask - do you believe this yourself?

[Diego1618]

He used a stone for his pillow, put on coarse clothes and ate rough food

Don't know where in the world this came from but the only pillow I can find is Mark 4:38 and it doesn't appear to be a stone.

Do you really believe the soldiers would cast lots to divide up his coarse clothing?

Jesus and his disciples ate three separate Passover meals during his ministry and this would of course be roast lamb. [John 2:13, John 6:4 and John 13:1] Jesus also participated in the feeding of the crowd with the five barley loaves and two fish [John 6:12], hardly a rough meal. A dinner was given in His honor by Lazarus. I would doubt that this was rough food....especially since a pint of very expensive perfume was offered to him at the dinner (verse 3). He instructed his disciples to eat what was put before them [Luke 10:8] and I'm sure he did the same and this would not necessarily be rough food.

I find no scripture regarding rough food.....which does not say that he may have, upon occasion eaten it....but there is no scripture indicating that. When he had finished speaking once he was invited to a meal given by a local Pharisee [Luke 11:37} which sounds like something he was accustomed to do. These occasions would probably not include rough food.

Me thinks Ali Ibn Talib may not have known our Saviour as well as some of us FReepers.

[BlackVeil]

I've read that there's a at least one religious group that believes Ali Ibn Talib was actually a seventh-century reincarnation of the "Christ-Spirit" ... It doesn't seem to be a widely-held belief, but I thought I'd ask - do you believe this yourself?

Golly! What a strange belief! No, I don't share it. I do not believe in reincarnation.

I looked up the website you provided, they do seem to be an odd sect. Maybe an outgrowth of the Druse - because they too are based in Lebanon and Palestine, and they believe in reincarnation.