Posted on 05/19/2006 5:51:33 PM PDT by fishtank
Opus Dei, the Da Vinci Code and ODAN
For those of us who have witnessed firsthand Opus Dei’s deceptive and manipulative practices, it has not been easy watching Opus Dei stage a large public relations campaign in order to dispel the image the book ‘The DaVinci Code” has projected about them. It is equally hard to watch Opus Dei not be honest about their questionable practices. An inaccurate explanation of what exists within Opus Dei is being projected through their public statements and media appearances. The timing of their response to the movie appears highly choreographed and feels more like a high powered Madison Avenue public relations firm is behind all the activity, rather than a “disorganized organization” as Opus Dei has recently portrayed itself.
Recently, high ranking Opus Dei men (no women!) convened in Rome in order to draft a campaign they call “Operation Lemonade,”[1] a light-hearted name that masks the controlled environment that exists within the group. The name does not lend itself to the reality of what Opus Dei truly practices - deceptive recruitment and manipulative control of its membership. “Operation Lemonade” produced three goals: 1. Turn publicity into an opportunity to proselytize; 2. Ally itself with other Catholics (essentially, hide behind the Church); 3. Maintain a non-aggressive tone.[2] In recent weeks, Opus Dei has tried to equate criticism of its organization with criticism of the Catholic Church. An example of how Opus Dei piggybacks itself with the Catholic Church is demonstrated in the statement “According to Brian Finnerty, U.S. Media Relations Director for the Catholic group Opus Dei, the novel [The Da Vinci Code] is a completely inaccurate portrayal of the Catholic Church.”[3] Does that include Opus Dei? To the casual observer Opus Dei could be taken as the Catholic Church.
ODAN does not agree with The DaVinci Code’s depiction of Christianity and does not question the divinity of Christ. However, where the Da Vinci Code is accurate is in its depiction of the blind obedience of the fictional Opus Dei character, Silas the albino monk. His behavior demonstrates the absolute control and obedience that exists in Opus Dei today. Former members have contacted ODAN with stories of pressure exerted by Opus Dei and a culture that demands obedience in every situation. Former members testify that they have been forced by Opus Dei directors to hand over their salaries, abandon past friendships, ignore dubious financial irregularities, turn over their mail to be read (without the senders’ knowledge), aggressively recruit, prepare monthly statistical reports about potential members, and even not attend siblings’ weddings. If they did not go along with what Opus Dei requested of them, in some cases dishonest acts,[4] they were told they risked eternal damnation and some were eventually asked to leave. Members who question Opus Dei practices are reprimanded and often led to the following quote from Opus Dei’s Founder, “If one of my children abandons the fight, or leaves the war, or turns his back, let him know that he betrays us all, Jesus Christ, the Church, his brothers and sisters in the Work…it would be treason to consent to the tiniest act of unfaithfulness…in these moments.” (Cronica, ii, 1972)[5]
A recently posted website, Jesus DeCoded,[6] explains among other things, the inaccuracies in The DaVinci Code regarding Christianity and the divinity of Christ. There is also a section “The Real Opus Dei”[7] by Peter Bancroft, the communications Director for Opus Dei in the United States. He gives his organization’s official description of itself. People who have been deceived, manipulated and hurt by Opus Dei would not agree with his assessment. He uses the opportunity to elevate Opus Dei as a benign organization. Because many uninformed people in regard to Opus Dei will be looking at this website, this Opus Dei spokesperson errs by projecting an image of Opus Dei that is only partially true.
Another source for information about The Da Vinci Code is “The Real History Behind The Da Vinci Code” by medieval scholar and historian Sharan Newman. Written in encyclopedic form alphabetically, there is a section on Opus Dei and ODAN. She reveals historical truths and myths in her book[8]
In the previews of the Da Vinci Code movie, the use of corporal mortification, specifically the discipline[9] (whip) and the cilice[10] (spiked chain) are depicted as violent, bloody acts. The sound magnifies their impact. This is a sensationalistic image and Opus Dei members mostly do not bring this practice to such heights, nor does the average Opus Dei member’s life resemble Silas’. This horrible depiction has given Opus Dei the opportunity to focus on the extremes of the movie and mask the real problems within Opus Dei.
A supernumerary member of Opus Dei recently appeared on a TV program and was asked to give her explanation of the use of corporal mortification within Opus Dei. When asked to comment about the use of the discipline, she said “a few people in Opus Dei just mildly slap it on their back while reciting prayers.”[11] Opus Dei numeraries do not “slap” their backs with the discipline, they hit their buttocks, and describing it as a slap is an attempt to soften the intensity of using it. Continuing she says “only a few people in Opus Dei use corporal mortification”[12]. Not one former numerary member has told ODAN in its 14 years of existence that they were not compelled to use the cilice and discipline. As a supernumerary member of Opus Dei, she does not have accurate information about what a numerary member’s life consists of. That Opus Dei nearly always puts forth supernumerary members for media interviews is in itself a deception. It is yet another example of Opus Dei secrecy and the ways it keeps the general public and even a portion of its members uninformed to what the other part is doing.
On March 22, 2006 Opus Dei launched a revamped web site in 22 languages[13]. On April 16, 2006 it issued a statement through most of their websites requesting a disclaimer on the upcoming film.[14] In an April 6, 2006 letter to Sony Corporation, Opus Dei wrote “Any such decision by Sony would be a gesture of respect toward the figure of Jesus, to the history of the Church and to the religious beliefs of viewers”.[15] The timing has allowed Opus Dei to be the driving force on media coverage prior to the film’s release and mixes criticism of Opus Dei with the Catholic Church. For the general public not familiar with Opus Dei, it would seem that individuals who criticize Opus Dei would also be criticizing the Catholic Church, which is simply not true. In almost fifteen years in existence, ODAN has never seen any significant sign that Opus Dei is open to honest criticism or willing to change harmful practices. In fact, the Founder himself wrote the following, “…as Jesus received his doctrine from the Father, so my doctrine is not mine, but comes from God and so not a jot or tittle shall ever be changed.”[16] The DaVinci Code did not cause Opus Dei’s bad reputation, they earned it themselves a long time ago.
To further demonstrate the depth and scope of criticism of Opus Dei, ODAN has received two separate letters from anonymous parents whose children attend several different Opus Dei schools. Both letters talk about manipulation and Opus Dei’s deceitful tactics: Letter 1[17] and Letter 2[18] They speak of not being able to question anything in Opus Dei without fear of repercussion. The aggressive recruitment that exists in Opus Dei is known far and wide by people who have been hurt by them, but especially at Opus Dei affiliated schools. Some schools do not even admit their ties with Opus Dei.
Joining in the criticism of Opus Dei are two other web sites, the Spanish Opus Libros [19] site located in Spain and the Portuguese Opuslivre[20] located in Brazil. The two websites were created separately from each other and ODAN and provide a critical view of Opus Dei. They provide a much needed connection about Opus Dei’s activity in other parts of the world. They are our sister websites and we welcome their existence. It clearly negates the statement on the part of Opus Dei that there are only a few critics.
Another example of Opus Dei’s dual reality is the case of Dennis Dubro, a former numerary member who has spoken out about Opus Dei’s controlling ways and dishonest practices. In his financial role at an Opus Dei dormitory in Sydney, Australia, Dubro recalls “The accounts were in complete chaos. We didn’t know how much was in the bank. There was money missing. Some account balances were off by hundreds of percents.”[21] (A spokesman for Opus Dei says he is not familiar with the details of this case but that “nobody was trying to cheat anyone.”)[22] How can the Opus Dei spokesperson know that nobody was trying to cheat anyone when he did not know the details of the case? Is it because Opus Dei makes blanket statements about their activity and will not admit wrongdoing? If anything, this statement by an Opus Dei spokesperson reveals Opus Dei’s true unhealthy nature and its inability to be truthful and honest about itself.
In John Allen’s book about Opus Dei, he states “think of it (Opus Dei) as the Guinness Extra Stout of the Catholic Church. It’s a strong brew, definitely an acquired taste, and clearly not for everyone.”[23] Yes, Opus Dei may seem to be a Stout Beer, but think of this possibility; it has purposely changed the label on its drink to something else, all the while keeping its true contents secret.
Jesus did not lie nor was He secretive about His ministry while He walked on earth. In John 18:20, Jesus answers His critics “I have spoken openly to the world…I have said nothing in secret.” His ministry was out in the open for all to see. When can we say the same about Opus Dei?
Opus Dei Awareness Network, Inc. May 10, 2006
Are you saying you have to work for your salvation?
LOL! Here we go with the typical counter. Nope, but are you saying that a one time confession and no action on your part as a Christian will save you? I've even had the OSAS camp tell me that people can murder someone and still get into Heaven as long as they made that altar call at one time. This isn't Biblical teaching. Read Romans 6 as an example.
What action do you have to perform to earn your salvation?
Because of the great inequality between God and creatures, they are incapable of meriting or earning any reward from Him so that an action initiated by a creature would oblige Him to respond by the bestowal of a favor (CCC §2007). This of course includes the reward of glorification in heaven, as well as the life of grace on earth.
It's affirmed, therefore, by us, that we can't merit or earn salvation on our own account, by doing some work that would oblige God to justify and sanctify us, snatching us from the dominion of the devil and slavery to sin. However, this does not mean that once we've been thus rescued by divine grace we possess a limitless and unconditional freedom of action. The knowledgeable and willful commission of any gravely sinful act, that is, an act that substantially violates the law of God, is incompatible with the life of grace in the soul and therefore causes a man once justified to fall from his state. Numerous witnesses to this can be attested from the holy scriptures, as for instance 2 St. Peter 2:20-22, 1 Corinthians 10:1-12, Ezechiel 33:13.
This doesn't mean that by avoiding mortal sin the just man is progressively 'earning' his salvation. He's simply avoiding justly earning or meriting the opposite: damnation. The initial infusion of grace, the divine life of God Himself, remains a free and unmerited gift. It's not necessary for us to earn this gift, which, as all other supernatural gifts given to men, our Lord Himself merited and earned for us through his sorrowful Passion and death. Nor is it even possible, as Thomas writes: "when anyone has grace, the grace already possessed cannot come under merit, since reward is the term of the work, but grace is the principle of all our good works ... it is manifest that no one can merit for himself the first grace." (Summa Theologiae Pars I-II q. 114 a. 5)
You're misinterpreting (and I pray not deliberately) what I asked you. Irregardless, GBCDOJ gave an excellent response to you. Good night.
II. We are not Guaranteed Salvation; We Hope For Salvation
Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.
Heb. 9:12 - Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of "once saved, always saved," such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.
Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the "hope" (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?
Rom. 5:5 - this "hope" does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Our hope is assured if we persevere to the end.
Rom. 8:24 - this "hope" of salvation that Paul writes about is unnecessary if salvation is guaranteed. If salvation is assured, then why hope?
Rom. 10:1 - Paul prays that the Jews "may be saved." Why pray if it's guaranteed? Further, why pray unless you can mediate?
Rom. 12:12 - rejoice in your "hope" (not your certainty), be patient in tribulation, and be constant in prayer.
2 Cor. 3:12 - since we have a "hope" (not a certainty), we are very bold. We can be bold when we are in God’s grace and our persevering in obedient faith.
Gal. 5:5 - for through the Spirit by faith we wait for the "hope" (not the certainty) of righteousness.
Eph. 1:18 - that you may know what is the "hope" to which He has called you, what are the riches of His glorious inheritance.
Eph. 4:4 - there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one "hope" (not the one certainty) that belongs to your call.
Eph. 6:10-17 – Paul instructs the Ephesians to take the whole armor of God, the breastplate of righteousness, and the helmet of salvation, in order “to stand,” lest they fall. Paul does not give any assurance that the spiritual battle is already won.
Phil. 3:11 - Paul shares Christ's sufferings so that "if possible" he may attain resurrection. Paul does not view his own resurrection as a certainty.
Phil. 1:20 - as it is my eager expectation and "hope" (not certainty) that I shall not be at all ashamed before Christ.
Col. 1:5 - Paul refers to the "hope" (not guarantee) that Christ laid up for us in heaven.
Col. 1:23 - provided that you continue in the faith, not shifting from the "hope" of the gospel which you heard.
Col. 1:27 - to them God chose to make known His mystery, which is Christ in you, the "hope" (not the certainty) of His glory.
1 Thess. 1:3 - remembering before our God your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of "hope" in Jesus Christ.
1 Thess. 2:19 - for what is our "hope" or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at his coming? Is it not you?
1 Thess. 5:8 - we must put on the helmet of "hope" (not of certainty) of salvation.
2 Thess. 2:16 - the Lord Jesus and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good "hope" through grace.
1 Tim. 1:1 - Paul describes Christ Jesus as our "hope" (not our guarantee). We can reject Him and He will allow this.
1 Tim. 4:10 - Paul says we toil and strive because we have our "hope" (not our assurance) on the living God. This is not because God is unfaithful, but because we can be unfaithful. We toil and strive for our salvation.
1 Tim. 5:5 - she who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her "hope" (not her assurance) on God. Our hope is a guarantee only if we persevere to the end.
1 Tim. 5:15 – Paul writes that some have already strayed after satan, as God Himself tells us in 1 Tim. 4:1. They were on the right path, and then strayed off of it.
2 Tim. 2:10 - Paul endures for the elect so that they "may also obtain salvation." This verse teaches us that even the "elect,” from the standpoint of human knowledge, have no guarantee of salvation.
Titus 1:2 - Paul says that he is in the "hope" (not the certainty) of eternal life. Paul knows that his hope is a guarantee if he perseveres, but his ability to choose sin over God makes his attainment of eternal life less than an absolute certainty until it is actually achieved.
Titus 2:13 - awaiting our blessed "hope," the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
Titus 3:7 - Paul says we have been given the Spirit so we might become heirs in the "hope" (not the certainty) of eternal life.
Heb. 3:6 - we are Christ's house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our "hope" (not our certainty).
Heb. 6:11 - we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of "hope" (not certainty) until the end.
Heb. 6:18 - we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the "hope" (not the certainty) that is set before us.
Heb. 6:19 - we have a "hope" that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone before us.
Heb. 7:19 - on the other hand, a better "hope" (not certainty) is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
Heb. 10:23 - let us hold fast the confession of our "hope" without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
Heb. 11:1 - now faith is the assurance of things "hoped" for (not guaranteed), the conviction of things not seen (heaven).
Heb. 12:1 – let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us.
Heb. 12:15 – see to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God; that no root of bitterness spring up and cause trouble, and by it many become defiled.
James 1:12 - we must endure trial and withstand the test in order to receive the crown of life. It is not guaranteed.
1 Peter 1:3 - by His mercy we have been born anew to a living "hope" through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
1 Peter 1:13 - set your "hope" (not assurance) fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:21 - through Him you have confidence in God, who raised him from the dead so that your faith and "hope" are in God.
1 Peter 2:2 - like newborn babes, long for spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation. How can you grow up to something you already possess?
1 Peter 3:15 - always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who calls you to account for the "hope" that is in you.
1 John 3:3 - and everyone who thus "hopes" in Him purifies himself as He is pure. These verses teach us that we must cooperate with God’s grace and persevere to the end to be saved. We can and do have a moral certitude of salvation if we persevere in faith, hope and love.
Rom 8:24 For we have been saved by by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for?
Eph 2:5,8 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved,).... 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;
Titus 3:5 but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost
I am being saved
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
I will be saved
Mt 10:22 And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved
Mt 24:13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.
MT 8:35 For whosoever will save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel, shall save it.
Romans 5:9,10 Christ died for us; much more therefore, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
But there is no assurance of salvation. Some, once converted to Christ, can still fall
1 Cor 11 Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall.
Gal 5 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.
Mt 7 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 24 13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved
Rom 11 20 Well: because of unbelief they were broken off. But thou standest by faith: be not highminded, but fear. For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee. See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
*We Catholics use the entire New Testament.
According to the Bible, and according to the Church Jesus established; - Matt 16:18
God says you can know you are saved, but you claim otherwise. Who should I believe?
GBCDOJ: At #84, you prove once again to be the closest that FR will ever see to the computer savvy Living Magisterium of Holy Mother the Church. Thanks for everything you do here to engage in modest and respectful and knowledgeable apologetics.
Maine-iac7: When you get to know me, I bet you will find that though I can be somewhat sarcastic and colorful in combat, I am not such a bad guy. I am certainly willing to believe that you are likewise. If you know any reformed Christian who was arrested at a Connecticut abortion mill between about 1975 and 1992 or so and ask about the Catholic attorney who represented most pro-life criminal arrestees (the humble local one and not the civil case attorney who has operated nationally with distinction), I bet they will confirm that I am not so bad. I took the difficult road of representing each pro-life arrestee according to his or her own religious beliefs and according to his or her own wishes as an individual defendant. It was the best compensation I ever had as an attorney: little money but the cherished opportunity to thank God for His love and to use my status as an attorney by being a servant of people of varying faiths who had demonstrated their love of God in their daily lives and were threatened with punishment for their virtues rather than for their sins. On Saturday, I was getting mad at you. I am glad that I uncharacteristically shut up for two days so that others, including you, could talk. Your response agreeing that we have to fight our political wars as allies is good enough for me to recognize your substantial worth in service to Jesus Christ, my Savior and yours.
Everyone: We all need to work together. We are fallen. We are sinners. It is all too easy to allow our respective levels of pride to clash and give rise to rancor and and anger and enmity, all to the delight of our mutual enemies who serve our ancient enemy below, knowingly or otherwise. Someday we may have earned the right to disagree with one another in public on matters of faith but that day is yet to come when we have witnessed in the lifetimes of most of us 50+ million slaughtered innocents among other outrages. Except by sins of omission, neither Roman Catholicism nor reformed Christianity, as such, killed any of them. We need to work together to end this Holocaust.
Also bear with my less scholarly (than GBCDOJ's) method of describing my Catholic reaction to the OSAS doctrine of Evangelicals. I have been a believing (though certainly not perfectly practicing) Catholic for more decades than I like to recall. I grew up serving the Tridentine Mass as an altar boy. I have the grace of never having doubted any actual dogma of Catholicism. I am not about to start now. I know that many of our reformed brothers and sisters are just as firm in their faith as I am in mine. I respect that and recognize that it is a BIG part of what makes them valuable allies in our social issue civil war. The best Christian I ever hope to know was my mother's old-fashioned Methodist best friend Hilda. I would say that Hilda believed in the flag, the Bible and no darned taxes but her belief in the Bible trumped everything else and she lived it every day of her very long life.
Here's the story I want to tell. In the winter of 1971-1972, I was working for a Republican campaign in the presidential primary (John Ashbrook). I had to file some nominating papers at the office of the New Hampshire Secretary of State. As I arrived, so did Senator Edmund Sixtus Muskie (Polish Catholic of Maine whatever his politics). I stopped on the sidewalk out of respect for his office (though not for his politics) to allow him to precede me. There were three reasonably clean cut and very wholesome looking young people sitting on the Capitol steps, a young man with clean long hair clad in a buckskin jacket and two nice young women. As Muskie approached, the trio stood up and it occurred to me that it might be possible that they posed a threat to the senator despite their wholesome appearance. Nothing of the sort. The young man confronted the senator demanding to know either whether he had been saved or whether he was born again. The terms were unfamiliar to me and to Muskie who responded by bumbling utterances. Did Muskie accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior. Now Muskie was genuinely confused as to why he was being asked such questions and whether he was being tricked in some way. (Mentally, I responded by saying to myself: Of course, Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. No One else could be. He died on the cross for my sins. No One else could. A sin against God cannot very well be satisfied by an act of any mere human person.) The three young Christians made Muskie look very very foolish, very ignorant, very superficial and very worldly and very much the sort of Democrat so common today who has not a clue as to the meaning of God in the lives of conservative Americans and many others. The incident caused me to at least listen with respect to the faith statements of fervent Christian people whose theology on many matters makes no sense to this Catholic.
Jesus wept in the Garden of Gethsemane over the fact that His flock would not be one. Let each of us do a small part to lessen His tears.
Ironic, huh?
This entire thread is about you seizing on a single aspect of Opus Dei (negative) while discounting all other positive evidence that doesn't fit your ideology.
And, for some reason, you think your personal opinions ought be authoritative and normative
36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting
*Yeah, you're right. You don't have to do anything.
With all due respect, if you object to Catholicism's beliefs, you will object to Opus Dei. As you point out, there are certainly Catholics who object to Opus Dei as well. There are, to the best of my knowledge, no Opus Dei members (active) who object to Catholicism as such. There will be times when such a discussion as you suggest might be had. This is not one of those times.
The issue du jour is the DaVinci Code. I trust that you do not believe that Jesus married Mary Magdalene, that they had offspring whose descendants became the Merovingian royal family of France (and therefore ancestors of my wife and children [I am just a garden variety mutt with commoner ancestors and a smart mouth who married up]: We don't believe this nonsense and neither should anyone else). I trust that you do not believe in a feminine divinity principle or that Mary Magdalene was personally the Holy Grail. Whyt argue with one another when our common enemies are advancing such blasphemous nonsense against your faith and against mine. If ever there were an opportunity for us to join together in saying: OK, Dan, Tom, Opie: WHERE in Scripture do you find THAT????, this is that opportunity (without expanding the inquiry to matters dividing me from thee theologically).
God bless you and yours.
2 John 9 ...Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son
Ping to read later. How ya doin', fishtank?
Along with all the other garbage you're dishing out, you keep calling O.D. a "secret society". What kind of secret society has no secret rituals, no secret oaths, no secret handshakes, and keeps all of its meetings open to anyone who bothers to show up? Pray do tell ...
Even Opus Dei admitted to some of the cult-type practices: isolation from friends and family, handing over most of your income, the self torture (pain is good) constant prayers and rituals and intense training
Sounds like part and parcel of every Catholic religious order on earth. That's effectively what numeraries are: members of a religious order.
But the vast majority of people involved in O.D. aren't numeraries.
I learned that by reading your posts.
Discuss the issues all you want, but don't make it personal.
Post #46 is a flat-out calumny.
An "Opus Dei controls everything" conspiracy theory is as credible as the "Jews control everything" conspiracy theories are, and the proponents of each theory are equally respectable, IMO.
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