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To: Just mythoughts

"So the little dust eating serpent symbolically speaking is set for us to this day about a method of operation, lies using the very Scripture itself twisting and turning it ever so little or ever so much."

Ah, so now the Seprent is merely "symbolic" and not the physical manifestation of Satan or some other fallen angelic spirit (and God created that lot too, didn't he?), who also operates outside the sphere of God's control and knowledge? So much for being the all-seeing Almighty!

You argue on the one had for literal interpretation of the text, and then when the illogic of doing so is handed back to you, you call it a lie and the twisting of the truth. Wonderful thing about people who take their Bible literally: they can always have it both ways, and protective stupidity in the defense of scripture is a virtue.

"Paul uses some descriptive language about what went on in the Garden. Yet here we are alll these years later and it is still hidden to most of humanity, you think the Heavenly Father was not aware what would be???"

I'm going to interpret this to mean that you believe the Garden, as a physical place (as opposed to the symbolic serpent, I guess the Garden can't be a metaphor too), still exists someplace. Of course, you cannot in this day and age, with all our technology and knowledge of geography, pinpoint it's exact location on the globe (beyond much of an educated guess), so that non-metaphorical, physical garden must therefore exist in a non-methaphorical, non-physical reality.

Now you can rewrite the laws of physics using Scripture. Neat trick. Of course the illogic of this premise is negated by the "God can do anything" argument, except, apparently keep a Seprent out his garden, and stop Eve from doing what she's been specifically told not to do. God musty have been so busy creating this alternate physical universe that he couldn't watch the only two people on Earth for the few minutes it took them to eat the forbidden fruit. Which, apparently, he knew was going to happen anyway.

See where I'm going with this? By the way, neat trick of Paul writing about the events in the Garden when he wasn't there, and the place was barred to him by virtue of his frail humanity.

"The warning has been written over and over and over again as to what would bring in the end of this flesh age."

Yes it has. Every civilization has had myths and predictions about the end of the world and the fate of those that did not accept the "True" this or that. This was true long before the Bible and it's forerunners, and it will continue for as long as mankind requires faith, in any form. The Apocalypse of St. John, in many ways, is no different than the Aztec version of the end of the world and final battle between good and evil(which is supposed to arrive in 2019).

One we dismiss as "pagan" because it did not originate in the Western Tradition and was not sanctioned by the "True" Church, and the other is accepted by many as a certainty because it is sanctioned. Nothing like being hypocritical and prejudiced, even about the way in which the world will end.

"
Oh and since we are told the Heavenly Father knows what we are thinking and further that if we are of a mind not to have the love of truth, He Himself will send us strong delusions so that we will believe a lie."

Santa Claus also sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm aweake, etc, etc, etc. God then, in your view, has given me the gift of choosing to either be his willing slave (although a particularly loved and cherished one) or of being outside his grace; and then punishes me for using the gift in a way he does not approve of but is powerless to prevent in the first place? Wow, this makes more and more sense all the time.

"Even those that witnessed the coming out of Egypt could not keep their minds focused for a very long time and turn their adoration upon a golden calf. Very instructive about the minds and spines of we in this flesh."

The Golden Calf was worshipped BEFORE Moses brough the Commandments down from Sinai. There is no Israel and there are no Chosen People until after the Commandments are presented and accepted, there is, to speak, no contract between God and Man, and therefore no obligation to worship him instead of a golden calf.

Get your timeline straight. Golden Calf first. Presentation of Commandments and contract between God and man for exclusive rights to symbiotic salvation and worship second.

Again, I don't have an issue with your faith (or at least the underlying philosphy) or the practice thereof, just the assertion that "because the Bible says so" is a reasonable argument for anything.


129 posted on 05/06/2006 10:39:38 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Wombat101
"Ah, so now the Seprent is merely "symbolic" and not the physical manifestation of Satan or some other fallen angelic spirit (and God created that lot too, didn't he?), who also operates outside the sphere of God's control and knowledge? So much for being the all-seeing Almighty! "

Satan was not talking to Eve in the form of a snake, Ezekiel 28:13 tell us that Satan was created in the full pattern of beauty not a dust eating snake. Genesis is not the Jungle Book.

Further we are told continually what the bounds of control are and just how far Satan is allowed to go, that is the purpose of the continued warnings.

"You argue on the one had for literal interpretation of the text, and then when the illogic of doing so is handed back to you, you call it a lie and the twisting of the truth. Wonderful thing about people who take their Bible literally: they can always have it both ways, and protective stupidity in the defense of scripture is a virtue. "


Aruge??? Hey I am not the one purporting a talking snake.

"I'm going to interpret this to mean that you believe the Garden, as a physical place (as opposed to the symbolic serpent, I guess the Garden can't be a metaphor too), still exists someplace. Of course, you cannot in this day and age, with all our technology and knowledge of geography, pinpoint it's exact location on the globe (beyond much of an educated guess), so that non-metaphorical, physical garden must therefore exist in a non-methaphorical, non-physical reality."

Ezekiel says it was a real physical place and John in Revelations tell us that snake was the devil, and the curse placed upon that "talking" snake was the bruising of his head, and that has not taken place YET!!!!

"See where I'm going with this? By the way, neat trick of Paul writing about the events in the Garden when he wasn't there, and the place was barred to him by virtue of his frail humanity."

Well now where was Paul (his soul) during the Garden of Eden, Solomon says in Ecclesiastes1:9 The thing that hath been it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, 'See this is new?' it hath been already of OLD TIME, which was before us.

11There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after...

Jeremiah is told (1:5) "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

We are told that even before the birth of Jacob and Esau that while still in the womb Jacob I loved and Esau I hated by the Heavenly Father.

So explain then what this means and why we are told in this manner about the soul as though it had a history prior to entering the flesh age.

Think maybe Paul was elected to write what he wrote because he had already earned that position?

The word world is more accurately 'age' and is speaking about a specific time.

You need to study that word 'chosen' and Israel, affixing them to the time of Moses is not an accurate time frame, as the promise was given to Abraham and the promise still holds to this day. However, those (cough cough chosen) were so rebellious and stiff necked they had removed from their minds the remembrance of who they ever were as punishment for rejecting the Heavenly Father and whoring after other gods. Christ called them the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

You are exactly correct that humanity is not in this flesh age required to learn and live by the Bible even under that original penning. That age is yet to come, right now we in this flesh are allowed to pick and choose what we choose to believe.
146 posted on 05/06/2006 11:44:09 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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