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To: wideawake

I guess all that you have is ad hominem attacks to throw around.

Secondly, you setup a strawman because I believe in the Communion of Saints. Lutherans do too.

It would seem that you ascribe infallibility to every papal act just as the heretical ultramontanes did.

Every bishop is a vicar of Christ, not just the Pope of Rome.


10 posted on 05/03/2006 2:41:20 PM PDT by pravknight (Christos Regnat, Christos Imperat, Christos Vincit)
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To: wideawake

POPE ADRIAN VI (1522-1523)

"If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can error even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgment or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII (1316-1334)."
(Quaest. in IV Sententiam).

"[Pope] Honorius was anathematized by the East. We must remember that he was accused of heresy, a crime which legitimizes the resistance of inferiors to superiors, together with the rejection of their pernicious
doctrines. (Allocution III, Lect. In Conc. VIII, act. VII)

ST. ROBERT BELLARMINE, S.J. (1542-1621)
CARDINAL AND DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH

"In order to resist and defend oneself no authority is required.... Therefore, as it is lawful to resist the Pope, if he assaulted a man's person, so it is lawful to resist him, if he assaulted souls or troubled the state (turbanti rempublicam) and much more if he strove to destroy the Church. It is lawful, I say, to resist him by not doing what he commands, and hindering the execution of his will." (De Romano Pontifice, Lib. II, Ch. 29)

St. Francis De Sales
"And again we must not think that in everything and everywhere his judgment is infallible, but then only when he gives judgment on a matter of faith in questions necessary to the whole Church (In matters of Liturgy,his edicts only affect the Western half of the Church, thus he is not infallible); for in particular cases which depend on human fact he can err, there is no doubt, though it is not for us to control him in these cases save with all reverence, submission, and discretion. Theologians have said, in a word, that he can err in questions of fact, not in questions of right; that he can err extra cathedram, outside the chair of Peter, that is, as a private individual, by writings and bad example."

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/papacy/fds_pope14.html


15 posted on 05/03/2006 3:07:49 PM PDT by pravknight (Christos Regnat, Christos Imperat, Christos Vincit)
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To: pravknight
Secondly, you setup a strawman because I believe in the Communion of Saints. Lutherans do too.

I did not say that you did not believe in the Communion of Saints - I said that your rhetoric is analogous to the Lutheran rejection of the Communion of Saints.

And yes, Lutherans certainly reject the Catholic doctrine of the Communion of Saints. Lutherans hold that it is sinful to ask the saints for their intercession - they describe asking the Mother of God for her intercession as "Mariolatry."

You use similarly made-up, insulting and false terms like "Papolatry."

Catholics do not ascribe divine honors to Mary and Catholics do not ascribe divine honors to the Pope either.

So whether it is a Lutheran calling a faithful Catholic a "Mariolator" or a schismatic like you calling a faithful Catholic a "Papolator" the dishonesty, nastiness and stupidity of the rhetoric is of a piece.

30 posted on 05/04/2006 8:11:03 AM PDT by wideawake
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