>>So when is the last time you heard of anyone who spoke
>>to god "face to face" as is recorded in the bible?
>>(1) Jesus said, "if you have seen me, you have seen the
>>Father" (John 14:9). You don't need to go back to the OT
>>for face-to-face encounters. Go also to the Book of
>>Acts, where the resurrected Jesus appeared to Paul.
I just thought I'd start at the beginning... Genisis. As for John, Keep reading, John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Mormons believe that God and Christ are one in purpose, and Jesus being the literal sone of God is the express image of God, but Jesus Christ is not His own father.
Hey it's all good stuff, Read the whole chapter, why the twisting of Me, My father, this son business, if he was both why did he not say that? This was translated through many languages, by those whose belief will of course have colored their word selections, so why don’t we end up with Me, I and My all the time?
>>(2) Has Jesus appeared to others since then? I have no
>>doubt He has. But you won't find it in a document like
>>the D&C that reduces the "New Testament" into a "No
>>Testament." The problem w/the D&C is that it's not
>>noble. The Bereans were noble. They filtered the New
>>Revelation by searching the old revelation to "see if
>>what was said was true" (Acts 17:11). LDS turn that on
>>its head, putting the old revelation through the grid of
>>the new revelation. And they do that by adding the "veto
>>phrase" - "insofar as correctly translated" -- and then
>>using that as a trump card whenever it contradicts the
>>newer revelation. Therefore, the Bible is relegated to
>>secondary status.
The light of truth does not come from burning straw men. The D&C Does lots of things, disagree with the New Testament is not one of them.
Question, if something was translated wrong, how would God Document it to the Church? (Hint see the council at Nice).
>>(3) The problem w/the theology of a Resident King
>>Prophet on earth that bumps Jesus out of the way is that
>>the authority eminating from Commissioner Jesus is a
>>more "on-the-go" thrust. In other words, since Jesus is
>>now operating on a New Testament Covenant of a world-
>>wide kingdom and is no longer strategically operating
>>through a distinct people group like the Jews
>>alone, "sent-ones" (apostles) are vital. LDS try to
>>model an Old Testament focus where there is a
>>stationary "House of the Lord" (temples) instead of
>>realizing that people themselves are the temples of the
>>Holy Spirit. [Note also the heavy "Zion" theme where the
>>big base is Utah). LDS try to model an OT focus where
>>there is a stationary "go-to" prophet instead of "on-the-
>>go" apostles and disciples (Mt 28) who are led by
>>the "Sent-One" Holy Spirit (John 16).
>> “Resident King Prophet”
A really offensive turn of phrase, congratulations! The problem with your theory is that you start from Since your wrong, this won’t work. While an equally valid sounding argument can be made from the since it’s right, this is how it works school of thought, both can be destroyed by logical analysis.
A: Prophets who: (1.) Testify of the divinity of Chist (2.) Claim to receive revelation from Christ (3.) Receive their authority from Christ. Cannot supplant Christ, or the become nobodies with nothing to say, and no reason for anyone to listen to them.
With your first premise dead, the rest fall so easily to logic I will not bother with them here.
Mormons believe our bodies are (or should be) temples to the lord as well, but that does not obliterate the commandment to build temples which as far as I am aware has never been repealed (kind of like the command to Adam to multiply)
>>(4) LDS underplay the equivalency of the daily "face to
>>face" interaction between the Holy Spirit and those He
>>resides in. I'm sorry, but you can't get any more
>>intimate than a Holy Spirit who is in no way confined to
>>so-called living prophets, but resides in everyone who
>>is in Christ!
I agree whole heartedly with #4, but there is an order, even after the church members received the Holy Ghost, churches were organized, and order was established in the church by the apostles. If the Apostles were not going to be needed after the Holy ghost came then why did Jesus Christ call them?
In the Mormon Church every member is encouraged to pray about all the writings of the modern day prophets to receive a personal witness to there divine nature (See your #4)
>>(5) As for your alleged "face to face" prophets, how
>>many revelations have been added to the D&C these past
>>110 years by your living prophets? Has it neared double-
>>figures yet? If the LDS god is the equivalent of a
>>living, active, dynamic volcano, why no evident lava
>>flow equivalency of Scripture coming out of the depth?
>>Why has the mountain been so silent? Name 3 to 4 vital
>>revelations off the top of your head given by God
>>through your living prophet?
Revelations are now published monthly in the Ensign, all publications authored by General authorities and published by the church are considered “Scripture” We are way over triple digits.
1. The Proclamation on the Family (I love reading this)
2. For the Strength of youth
3. The Challenge to read the book of Mormon by the end of the year(2005)
4. My Calling to the mission field (Taiwan)
Whew! Now that I have answered your questions, when will you answer mine?
See what I mean? Somebody can go on eternally citing the Bible, and what does our friendly LDS self-appointed apologist do? He pulls out his "trump card," in which the training is ingrained, "when backed into a corner, always say, 'Insofar as correctly translated. That'll throw enough suspicion onto to the text so that we won't have to deal with it.'"
If you've got problems with the "translation," what's wrong with Joseph Smith's so-called "translation" of John 14:9 (even though he didn't know much Greek) in the Inspired Version? Or don't you trust Smith, either?
You can't win for losing w/a good number of LDS folks. Some will use John 14:9 as some sort of proof text that since you can see Jesus--and He has a body of flesh & bones--then likewise you can see the Father, who must have the same.
So for those LDS, John 14:9 is a fave proof-text. But for our friend, here, nope. We'll just throw down the veto card.