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To: DelphiUser
>>God the Father is no witness to Joseph Smith's testimony.

I will state here and now I have received such a witness. Complain not the ye have not received such a witness, but go and seek one for your self (Just a philosophical note: Its really dang hard to prove a negative here, “No one will ever receive a witness of X”)


And so ... your witness (from the Father) was experiential ?

And you could not have been fooled ?

Even as Joseph Smith could not have been fooled ?

The witnesses Jesus called for His ministry were objective. Noone (not even His enemies) could deny that He worked miraculous works of God, ... and that He taught as none had taught before.

>>There have been no mighty works like those following the ministries of Jesus,

>>Moses, Noah, Isaiah, Elijah, Elisha, John, Peter, Paul, etc.


Please define “Mighty Work”


Healing the sick, raising the dead, stilling the storm, walking on water, calling the fire of God down to consume sacrifice, parting the sea, providing waterfrom a rock, building the ark, etc.

>>Moses didn't write about Joseph Smith

Moses was writing about Christ, why would he write about a prophet to come almost 2,000 years later? Moses did not write about you either.


And I have not proclaimed myself the self-annointed bearer of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Joseph Smith did this. Biblically, he should have had a more witness ... to substantiate his claim.

>>And my point is that Joseph Smith needs to held to the same standard as any Biblical prophet.

He wrote Scriptures that have led many to believe in Christ, he prophesied of the future many prophecies have been fulfilled others are still waiting (revelations is still waiting too.)


I've seen his (Joseph Smith's) misses.

518 posted on 05/08/2006 5:56:21 PM PDT by Quester
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To: Quester

>>And you could not have been fooled ?

If you pray to God can just anyone answer? If so, how do you know anything? Could you be being fooled? At some point, we all have to say this, this thing, this is real.

>> Healing the sick, raising the dead, stilling the storm, walking on water, calling the fire
>>of God down to consume sacrifice, parting the sea, providing water from a rock,
>>building the ark, etc.

I have personally healed the sick using the priesthood, and it was nothing short of miraculous. I have used the Gift of Tongues to learn Chinese in less than two months. I have cast out unclean sprits by the power of the priesthood. I have not needed to do the other things you list here (Arc building for example is kind of a specialized need.) I have seen others do similar things, to what I have done, I see this requirement of yours as fulfilled, then again, I expect it to be, you expect it not to be.

Ye shall have no witness until after the trial of your faith

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

If you are asking for a sign, I offer none.

>> And I have not proclaimed myself the self-annointed bearer of the restoration
>>of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You assume he was self anointed, because you don’t believe the other evidences.

>>Joseph Smith did this. Biblically, he should have had a more witness ...
>>to substantiate his claim.

The three witnesses of the book of Mormon ( http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/thrwtnss )
The Testimony of the Eight Witnesses (http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/eghtwtns )
Joseph Smith’s Own Testimony (http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/jsphsmth )

How many witnesses did you say were needed?

Matt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corr 13: 1 THIS is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

I think he has that many.

Just in case, will my witness do?

>>I've seen his (Joseph Smith's) misses.

Yep, and Jonah, Job, Moses, even Christ Himself had people who saw “Flaws” whether or not they were there. That is what faith is all about. If Christ came to you personally and taught you the gospel, your need for faith would be ended, you would know.


521 posted on 05/08/2006 9:02:41 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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