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To: DelphiUser
What part of “Saved by Grace” don’t you understand?

What part of the word "after" don't you understand? Grace, according to this BoM passage, is like a rocket jet afterburner that kicks in somewhere in spiritual orbit. It doesn't kick in until the ship has done everything possible on its own to muster itself into orbit.

So, that triggers 2 thoughts:

(1) Congratulations, Spiritual Captain! Like Astronauts returning home, you get to share the glory stage with Jesus Christ 'cause, after all, it was your energy that got you to the stage before God's ever kicked in. [I know, I know, that seems to run counter to Scriptures like "those who were invited were NOT worthy" (Mt 22:8), "we are unworthy slaves" (Lk 17:10), and only he who is sick is in need of the Great Physician. We are NOT worthy to bask in the salvific glory of Jesus, but if you want to base your salvation upon the formula of 'My 100% energy will eventually trigger His' then it's your life at risk. You've been forewarned."]

(2) For the afterburner to kick in, YOU have to have done ALL [not 20%, 30% or even 90%--ALL!] you can. "We are saved by grace, AFTER ALL WE can do." I think you understand, "after." I think you understand, "all." Do you really think they'll come a point where you can say, "Yup. Spiritually, I've done all I can do?" Have you even ever heard or read ANY LDS testimony of ANYONE ever stating this?

If not, and I would surmise you haven't heard or read such a testimony, this standard is impossible to meet. And it's exactly why Jesus turned the question around when his disciples asked him, "What must WE DO to do the works God requires?" (John 6:28).

"Jesus answered, 'The work OF GOD is this: to believe in the one he has sent.'" (John 6:29).

464 posted on 05/08/2006 12:52:18 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Very nicely done!


467 posted on 05/08/2006 1:13:42 PM PDT by colorcountry (He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose.)
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To: Colofornian; colorcountry

Book of James Chapter two verses 14 through 26:

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

You may disagree with what I am saying, but it is VERY biblical, which puts me back into the Why the special venom for Mormons? Mode. As for your Colorful, if intentionally inaccurate metaphors, please re read this section if you haven’t already got it, maybe you will. As I said before on this forum, Belief in my position is not required, understanding is nice. By continuing to “misunderstand” you lower anyone reading this thread’s opinion of your I.Q.

Oh, and God requires all you can do whether you admit it or not. Why is the all you can do thing a problem for you, are you afraid you will be found to be a lukewarm Christian?

>> Have you even ever heard or read ANY LDS testimony of ANYONE ever stating this?

Yes. It’s referred to as having your “Calling and Election” made sure. I know two people who have had this wonderful experience, and I am not going to go into deeper details as I consider this sacred and this is NOT the forum for things this personal.


474 posted on 05/08/2006 1:59:15 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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