The Book of Mormon Challenge

Joseph Smith America Prophet ^ | 2006

[restornu]

The Book of Mormon is often dismissed as gibberish by those who have never taken the trouble to read it. In fact, its very existence poses a serious puzzle if it is not what it claims to be - an ancient record. Below is the Book of Mormon Challenge, an assignment that Professor Hugh Nibley at BYU sometimes gave to students in a required class on the Book of Mormon. The following text is taken from the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley, Vol.8, Ch.11, Pg.221 - Pg.222:

Since Joseph Smith was younger than most of you and not nearly so experienced or well-educated as any of you at the time he copyrighted the Book of Mormon, it should not be too much to ask you to hand in by the end of the semester (which will give you more time than he had) a paper of, say, five to six hundred pages in length. Call it a sacred book if you will, and give it the form of a history. Tell of a community of wandering Jews in ancient times; have all sorts of characters in your story, and involve them in all sorts of public and private vicissitudes; give them names--hundreds of them--pretending that they are real Hebrew and Egyptian names of circa 600 b.c.; be lavish with cultural and technical details--manners and customs, arts and industries, political and religious institutions, rites, and traditions, include long and complicated military and economic histories; have your narrative cover a thousand years without any large gaps; keep a number of interrelated local histories going at once; feel free to introduce religious controversy and philosophical discussion, but always in a plausible setting; observe the appropriate literary conventions and explain the derivation and transmission of your varied historical materials.

Above all, do not ever contradict yourself! For now we come to the really hard part of this little assignment. You and I know that you are making this all up--we have our little joke--but just the same you are going to be required to have your paper published when you finish it, not as fiction or romance, but as a true history! After you have handed it in you may make no changes in it (in this class we always use the first edition of the Book of Mormon); what is more, you are to invite any and all scholars to read and criticize your work freely, explaining to them that it is a sacred book on a par with the Bible. If they seem over-skeptical, you might tell them that you translated the book from original records by the aid of the Urim and Thummim--they will love that! Further to allay their misgivings, you might tell them that the original manuscript was on golden plates, and that you got the plates from an angel. Now go to work and good luck!

To date no student has carried out this assignment, which, of course, was not meant seriously. But why not? If anybody could write the Book of Mormon, as we have been so often assured, it is high time that somebody, some devoted and learned minister of the gospel, let us say, performed the invaluable public service of showing the world that it can be done." - Hugh Nibley

Structure and Complexity of the Book of Mormon First Nephi gives us first a clear and vivid look at the world of Lehi, a citizen of Jerusalem but much at home in the general world of the New East of 600 B.C. Then it takes us to the desert, where Lehi and his family wander for eight years, doing all the things that wandering families in the desert should do. The manner of their crossing the ocean is described, as is the first settlement and hard pioneer life in the New World dealt with.... The book of Mosiah describes a coronation rite in all its details and presents extensive religious and political histories mixed in with a complicated background of exploration and colonization. The book of Alma is marked by long eschatological discourses and a remarkably full and circumstantial military history. The main theme of the book of Helaman is the undermining of society by moral decay and criminal conspiracy; the powerful essay on crime is carried into the next book, where the ultimate dissolution of the Nephite government is described.

Then comes the account of the great storm and earthquakes, in which the writer, ignoring a splendid opportunity for exaggeration, has as accurately depicted the typical behavior of the elements on such occasions as if he were copying out of a modern textbook on seismology.... [Soon] after the catastrophe, Jesus Christ appeared to the most pious sectaries who had gathered at the temple.

...Can anyone now imagine the terrifying prospect of confronting the Christian world of 1830 with the very words of Christ? ...

But the boldness of the thing is matched by the directness and nobility with which the preaching of the Savior and the organization of the church are described. After this comes a happy history and then the usual signs of decline and demoralization. The death-struggle of the Nephite civilization is described with due attention to all the complex factors that make up an exceedingly complicated but perfectly consistent picture of decline and fall. Only one who attempts to make a full outline of Book of Mormon history can begin to appreciate its immense complexity; and never once does the author get lost (as the student repeatedly does, picking his way out of one maze after another only with the greatest effort), and never once does he contradict himself. We should be glad to learn of any other like performance in the history of literature. - Hugh Nibley, Collected Works Vol. 8

The four types of biblical experts There are four kinds of biblical experts: At the very top are the professionals who have been doing biblical research all their adult lives. They are usually professors in leading universities in various fields that are related to the Bible such as archaeologists, historians, paleographers, professors of the Bible, and professors of Near Eastern languages and literature.

These people are the most credible of all biblical experts and do not let religious views get in the way of the truth. This is why a lot of them consider themselves to be nonbelievers in the modern Christian and Jewish faiths. Their reputation and standing in the academic community is very important to them. This causes them to be cautious and not rashly declare statements upon any subject without presenting verifiable proof for their claims. It is to them that encyclopedias, journals and universities go to for information. Their community is very small, but extremely influential in the secular world. One distinctive feature of this group is the difficulty outsiders face when reading their writings which causes them to be a fairly closed society.

The second group of biblical experts are those who have legitimate degrees and may have initially been in the first group but were spurned by the first group for being unreliable because they disregard demonstrable proof simply because their religious convictions teach otherwise. For them, their religion's teaching overrides real biblical research. Very few of them can be considered Fundamentalists.

The third group of biblical experts are the "biblical experts." These people disregard the works and conclusions of the first group, and view the second group as their mentors. Nearly all anti-Mormons who produce anti-Mormon paraphernalia fall into this group. Their views are purely theological and display ignorance of legitimate biblical studies. Their arguments are non-rational and are frequently sensational hype and empty rhetoric. These people are very vocal and constantly parade their "expertise" upon the unknowing masses by giving seminars in various churches and religious schools. Nearly all of them are Fundamentalists.

The fourth group of "biblical experts" are those who have never read the Bible completely and do not even know the history and contents of the Bible. They are completely reliant upon materials produced by the third group and may have five verses in the Bible memorized to quote at people they encounter (in nearly every instance John 3:16 and John 14:6 are included in these five verses) to give the impression they are experts in the Bible. They usually need the Table of Contents to find various biblical books and are extremely vocal in their condemnation of Mormonism. They personify the wise adage:

The less knowledge a man has, the more vocal he is about his expertise.

They read an anti-Mormon book and suddenly they're experts on Mormonism:

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The remainder of Christians are those who believe in the Bible but never read it. The Bible is a very complex book for most Christians and seems to possess a power that intimidates them. This is why a normal Christian is impressed whenever he or she encounters an individual who can quote scripture. It is this ignorance of the Bible that causes some to proclaim themselves "biblical experts."

I am not aware of anyone in the first group of biblical experts who are anti-Mormon. If anything, real biblical scholars who know Mormon theology have a profound sense of admiration for it and are usually astonished that so many facets of Mormonism reflect authentic biblical teachings.

They are frequently puzzled at how Joseph Smith could find out the real biblical teaching since modern Judaism and Christianity abandoned them thousands of years ago. Uniquely Mormon doctrines such as the anthropomorphic nature of God, the divine nature and deification potential of man, the plurality of deities, the divine sanction of polygamy, the fallacy of sola scriptura, the superiority of the charismatic leaders over the ecclesiastical leaders and their importance, the inconsequence of Original Sin because of the Atonement of Christ, the importance of contemporary revelation, and so forth are all original Jewish and Christian thought before they were abandoned mainly due to Greek philosophical influence.

Mormonism to these scholars is the only faith that preserves the characteristics of the early chosen people. This doesn’t mean these scholars believe Mormonism is the true religion, since their studies are on an intellectual level instead of a spiritual one.

On the other hand, the leaders of the anti-Mormon movement are nearly all in the third category with a couple in the second. Real biblical experts (who aren’t Mormon) and are in the first category normally refer to the “biblical experts” in the third group as the “know-nothings” or the “Fundamentalist know-nothings.” These terms aren’t completely derogatory, but are accurate descriptions of the knowledge of the “biblical experts” in the third group. Ed Watson - Mormonism: Faith of the 21st Century

[sirchtruth]

According to your logic... I hope you are Catholic.

What are you talking about? I know the Moromon church of today wants to do good things, wants to follow Jesus Christ, and is a wonderful example for the family, but it was founded on false a premise - Mormonism was founded by a gold digging, peep stoning, con artist name Joseph Smith who til this day, among the MANY changes and denouncements by the Mormon Chuch still has not been declared a swindler, eventhough the facts point to such.

You can't have Jesus be the only way, and then have a grifter come along and prepose a history which includes things that NEVER happened, and give false prophecies and proclaim themselves a prophet from God!

Momonism is founded on a ruse...

[restornu]

Mormonism was founded by a gold digging, peep stoning, con artist name Joseph Smith who til this day, among the MANY changes and denouncements by the Mormon Chuch still has not been declared a swindler, eventhough the facts point to such.

That was common practices by those in the community an Joseph was a boy at the time...

Joseph spend his years on earth building up the Lord kingdom and many nights went to bed with only Johnny cake for dinner some gold digger!

He also and did his own labor in the fields etc. in between doing the work for the Lord.

As a lay church there was very little left over for a stipend where some group issues a paycheck every week!

Many of times he gave of what little he did accumulated to the pay the debts of others!

He was tar and feathered, beaten, thrown in jail on phoney charge, driven out of communities because many were jealous of when the LDS did thrive they drove them out and took over the land after the LDS left.

Those who said things about Joseph and the LDS also violated the Ten Commandments!

13 Thou shalt not kill.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s

You also read the History of the Joseph to get some balance as well!

CLICK

While many "experts" continue to view Joseph Smith as a controversial figure, renowned scholar (and Latter-day Saint) Richard Bushman locates Joseph in his historical and cultural context, fleshing out the many nuances of nineteenth-century American life that produced such a fertile ground for emerging religions.

While this book stands in the intersection of faith and scholarship, it does not avoid the problematic aspects of Smith's life and work, such as his practice of polygamy, his early attempts at treasure-seeking, and his later polictical aspirations.

In the end, Smith emerges as a genuine American phenomenon, a man driven by inspiration but not unaffected by his cultrual context. For anyone interested in the Mormon experience, it will be required reading for years to come.

***

From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. How should a historian depict a man's life when that man, and his religion, remain a mystery to so many 200 years after his birth? Bushman, an emeritus professor at Columbia University and author of Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism, greatly expands on that previous work, filling in many details of the founding prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and carrying the story through to the end of Smith's life.

Many continue to view Smith as an enigmatic and controversial figure. Bushman locates him in his historical and cultural context, fleshing out the many nuances of 19th-century American life that produced such a fertile ground for emerging religions. The author, a practicing Mormon, is aware that his book stands in the intersection of faith and scholarship, but does not avoid the problematic aspects of Smith's life and work, such as his practice of polygamy, his early attempts at treasure-seeking and his later political aspirations.

In the end, Smith emerges as a genuine American phenomenon, a man driven by inspiration but not unaffected by his cultural context.

This is a remarkable book, wonderfully readable and supported by exhaustive research. For anyone interested in the Mormon experience, it will be required reading for years to come.

[Porterville]

I'm glad I'm Catholic... I bet you are not.

[restornu]

Something of great interest!

1-The antipope Hippolytus argued correctly that Jesus and God are clearly two separate people in the New Testament,

2-and then argued, not so correctly,

3-that Jesus must therefore be divine in a separate sense from his father.

Well I looked up antipope Hippolytus!

To begin with, Hippolytus was a "great-grandson" of St. John the Apostle.

That is, we can trace his line of apostolic succession directly to John. He was commissioned by St. Irenaeus who was commissioned by Polycarp who was commissioned by (or at least knew) St. John himself. So there can be no question about his legitimacy as a bishop.

From the fourth century on, the Roman Church venerated Hippolytus as a saint.

Even popes have acknowledged him as a saint. Yet he was also the first antipope (one illegally elected at the same time).

[restornu]

After reading a statment in Bart D. Ehrman "Lost Christianities" "He issues an important reminder that there was no such thing as a monolithic Christian orthodoxy before the fourth century."

From Publishers Weekly
"The New Testament is a collection of writings that support a particular set of views of Christianity (Ehrman explains why this is both a good thing and a bad thing). p>

[restornu]

Saint Hippolytus of Rome (was a "great-grandson" of St. John the Apostle.)

born c. 170 died c. 235, , Sardinia; Western feast day August 13, Eastern feast day January 30 Christian martyr who was also the first antipope (217/218–235).

Hippolytus was a leader of the Roman church during the pontificate (c. 199–217) of St. Zephyrinus, whom he attacked as being a modalist (one who conceives that the entire Trinity dwells in Christ and who maintains that the names Father and Son are only different designations for the same subject).

Hippolytus, rather, was a champion of the Logos doctrine that distinguished the persons of the Trinity.

He conceived of God as a unit who, while indivisible, was plural. In ethics he was conservative—being scandalized when Calixtus (successor of Zephyrinus) took measures to extend absolution to graver sins such as adultery—and he regarded the church as a society composed exclusively of the just.

Although Hippolytus' reputation as a scholar and his literary talent were assets to his cause, the church chose Calixtus for the papacy when Zephyrinus died. In disgust, Hippolytus withdrew from the Roman community and headed a dissident group that consecrated him. He reigned in opposition to the succeeding pontificates of Saints Urban I (222–230) and Pontian (230–235), with whom he was exiled to the mines of Sardinia in 235 during the persecution of Christians by the Roman emperor Maximinus.

There he became reconciled with Pontian and exhorted his supporters to unite with Rome. Before dying as martyrs, both resigned to allow for a successor, St. Anterus (235–236), thus ending the schism. Pope St. Fabian (236–250) had their corpses brought to Rome for solemn burial.

Rather than an original theologian, Hippolytus was a laborious, learned compiler whose writings were often marred by an embittered, controversial tone. The West soon forgot him because he was a schismatic and because he wrote in Greek.

His most important work is considered to be Philosophumena (one part of a larger work called Refutation of All Heresies), which seeks to show that the various Christian heresies are traceable to false pagan philosophies.

The church order, known as the Apostolic Tradition (extant only in later versions; Eng. trans. by G. Dix, 1937), is now generally attributed to him and illuminates the rites and liturgies in use at Rome in the early 3rd century AD.

[DelphiUser]

Hippolytus, Good stuff, since I always want to give as authoritative of a link as possible, see (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07360c.htm )

“Hippolytus, on the contrary, stood uncompromisingly for a real difference between the Son (Logos) and the Father, but so as to represent the Former as a Divine Person almost completely separate from God”

“Hippolytus was the most important theologian and the most prolific religious writer of the Roman Church in the pre-Constantinian era. Nevertheless the fate of his copious literary remains has been unfortunate. Most of his works have been lost or are known only through scattered fragments, while much has survived only in old translations into Oriental and Slavic languages; other writings are freely interpolated. The fact that the author wrote in Greek made it inevitable that later, when that language was no longer understood in Rome, the Romans lost interest in his writings, while in the East they were read long after and made the author famous.”

Boy I would love to read those books!

[sirchtruth]

Thanks for proving my point. I'll challenge you to show me why anyone in this world should believe in Mormonism when propecies of the self proclaimed prophet Joseph have failed...and because they have, we know by the Word Mr. Smith can NOT be a prophet.

You also read the History of the Joseph to get some balance as well!

Maybe you should read this more carefully because there is clear contradictions between Smith's Fantasy Tales and the Truth.

Which one are you going to chose to believe?

[restornu]

The LDS Love all of the Word of God!


Until you can tell me about the history of the Prophet you have read from LDS scholars than I might take your disagreements seriously!

[sirchtruth]

Until you can tell me about the history of the Prophet you have read from LDS scholars than I might take your disagreements seriously!

If you would take a moment and take a look outside your current perspective maybe you would understand why the holy scripture is in direct contradiction with Mormonism.

Btw, the history of Mormonism, The Book Of Mormon, The Pearl Of Great Price, and Joseph Smith personal life has changed so much by so many of those LDS scholars it's laughable.

This is a believing faith, you chose to believe what you will...

[restornu]

You let others do your homework until you do it yourself it is only heresay!:)

[JRochelle]

Well we all know that Smith didn't obey # 17.
He coveted his neighbors' wife, daughter, maid, etc etc.

And then he figured out a way to get them into his bed!

How convenient for him!!

[restornu]

only in some folks minds....

[restornu]

I thought you would like this what the BYU ED has online!

History of Vatican City: Primary Documents
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/vatican.html

[tmp02]

Time doesn't matter as much trying to make an immitation of the real thing.

[tmp02]

Your JC is different from my Jesus Christ the Son of God, born of a virgin, died on the cross for my sins, arose from the dead in 3 days, GONE to HEAVEN to prepare a place for me (Not New York City), IS SITTING at the right hand of the Father, will judge those who have no faith in HIM, created the world in 6 days (John 1:1-2),

[DelphiUser]

>>Time doesn't matter as much trying to make an immitation of the real thing.

Time does matter because it was part of the original challenge issued. (Write a book this long, include these things no rewrites, this much time, Go…) You can’t take any of the requirements away and say you’ve met the challenge, anymore than you can just claim to have won an election without having enough actual votes.

Oh, Democrats have done that… Sorry.

The challenge by the way does not address whether or not your write “Scripture” just a story with the following properties in the set amount of time.

Maybe I am not getting your point…

Oh, and #436, the only thing we believe different than what you said is the Suffering for sins happened in the Garden, the paying for Adam’s transgression happened with Jesus’ death on the Cross and resurrection. Other than that, I could have written what you did, and that is a small difference (Not disputing what, just where)

[Colofornian]

We are commanded to get to know God and Chist, (John 17: 3 http://scriptures.lds.org/john/17/3#3 ) John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Glad you quoted John 17:3. It shows eternal life is in a relationship, not just a time period (future tense).

Eternal life, therefore is present tense. Just look at all the passages which say eternal life is now: John 3:36, 5:24; 1 John 5:11-12...for starters.

Did you know eternal life is now because it's based on a faith relationship of who you know and not based upon performance?

[Colofornian]

Are you trying to Shake my faith? (Not even Close). If you were trying to shake anyone’s faith, what a despicable thing to attempt.

Okay, so if we try to enlighten someone that the tulips in their backyard are not praiseworthy as gods, or that cows are not sacred because they were great-grandfather Joe, then "shaking" such a faith is "despicable," eh?

Better tell certain folks where white shirts & ties to stop going door to door. Might shake someone's faith their visiting (to hear the gospel was lost, in need of restoration).

You can't even be consistent w/the tenets of what you say you believe.

[Colofornian]

The “Mormon God is a god of accountability, the perception I have of the protestant God is that all you have to do is say “I believe” and go on sinning, because “God will take care of it.” and you have no responsibility to do anything.

Is this in contradistinction to the Mormon god who apparently says, "You take care of your sin. It's totally on your shoulders"???