The Book of Mormon Challenge

Joseph Smith America Prophet ^ | 2006

[sirchtruth]

According to your logic... I hope you are Catholic.

What are you talking about? I know the Moromon church of today wants to do good things, wants to follow Jesus Christ, and is a wonderful example for the family, but it was founded on false a premise - Mormonism was founded by a gold digging, peep stoning, con artist name Joseph Smith who til this day, among the MANY changes and denouncements by the Mormon Chuch still has not been declared a swindler, eventhough the facts point to such.

You can't have Jesus be the only way, and then have a grifter come along and prepose a history which includes things that NEVER happened, and give false prophecies and proclaim themselves a prophet from God!

Momonism is founded on a ruse...

[restornu]

Mormonism was founded by a gold digging, peep stoning, con artist name Joseph Smith who til this day, among the MANY changes and denouncements by the Mormon Chuch still has not been declared a swindler, eventhough the facts point to such.

That was common practices by those in the community an Joseph was a boy at the time...

Joseph spend his years on earth building up the Lord kingdom and many nights went to bed with only Johnny cake for dinner some gold digger!

He also and did his own labor in the fields etc. in between doing the work for the Lord.

As a lay church there was very little left over for a stipend where some group issues a paycheck every week!

Many of times he gave of what little he did accumulated to the pay the debts of others!

He was tar and feathered, beaten, thrown in jail on phoney charge, driven out of communities because many were jealous of when the LDS did thrive they drove them out and took over the land after the LDS left.

Those who said things about Joseph and the LDS also violated the Ten Commandments!

13 Thou shalt not kill.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s

You also read the History of the Joseph to get some balance as well!

CLICK

While many "experts" continue to view Joseph Smith as a controversial figure, renowned scholar (and Latter-day Saint) Richard Bushman locates Joseph in his historical and cultural context, fleshing out the many nuances of nineteenth-century American life that produced such a fertile ground for emerging religions.

While this book stands in the intersection of faith and scholarship, it does not avoid the problematic aspects of Smith's life and work, such as his practice of polygamy, his early attempts at treasure-seeking, and his later polictical aspirations.

In the end, Smith emerges as a genuine American phenomenon, a man driven by inspiration but not unaffected by his cultrual context. For anyone interested in the Mormon experience, it will be required reading for years to come.

***

From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. How should a historian depict a man's life when that man, and his religion, remain a mystery to so many 200 years after his birth? Bushman, an emeritus professor at Columbia University and author of Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism, greatly expands on that previous work, filling in many details of the founding prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and carrying the story through to the end of Smith's life.

Many continue to view Smith as an enigmatic and controversial figure. Bushman locates him in his historical and cultural context, fleshing out the many nuances of 19th-century American life that produced such a fertile ground for emerging religions. The author, a practicing Mormon, is aware that his book stands in the intersection of faith and scholarship, but does not avoid the problematic aspects of Smith's life and work, such as his practice of polygamy, his early attempts at treasure-seeking and his later political aspirations.

In the end, Smith emerges as a genuine American phenomenon, a man driven by inspiration but not unaffected by his cultural context.

This is a remarkable book, wonderfully readable and supported by exhaustive research. For anyone interested in the Mormon experience, it will be required reading for years to come.

[Porterville]

I'm glad I'm Catholic... I bet you are not.

[restornu]

Something of great interest!

1-The antipope Hippolytus argued correctly that Jesus and God are clearly two separate people in the New Testament,

2-and then argued, not so correctly,

3-that Jesus must therefore be divine in a separate sense from his father.

Well I looked up antipope Hippolytus!

To begin with, Hippolytus was a "great-grandson" of St. John the Apostle.

That is, we can trace his line of apostolic succession directly to John. He was commissioned by St. Irenaeus who was commissioned by Polycarp who was commissioned by (or at least knew) St. John himself. So there can be no question about his legitimacy as a bishop.

From the fourth century on, the Roman Church venerated Hippolytus as a saint.

Even popes have acknowledged him as a saint. Yet he was also the first antipope (one illegally elected at the same time).

[restornu]

After reading a statment in Bart D. Ehrman "Lost Christianities" "He issues an important reminder that there was no such thing as a monolithic Christian orthodoxy before the fourth century."

From Publishers Weekly
"The New Testament is a collection of writings that support a particular set of views of Christianity (Ehrman explains why this is both a good thing and a bad thing). p>

[restornu]

Saint Hippolytus of Rome (was a "great-grandson" of St. John the Apostle.)

born c. 170 died c. 235, , Sardinia; Western feast day August 13, Eastern feast day January 30 Christian martyr who was also the first antipope (217/218–235).

Hippolytus was a leader of the Roman church during the pontificate (c. 199–217) of St. Zephyrinus, whom he attacked as being a modalist (one who conceives that the entire Trinity dwells in Christ and who maintains that the names Father and Son are only different designations for the same subject).

Hippolytus, rather, was a champion of the Logos doctrine that distinguished the persons of the Trinity.

He conceived of God as a unit who, while indivisible, was plural. In ethics he was conservative—being scandalized when Calixtus (successor of Zephyrinus) took measures to extend absolution to graver sins such as adultery—and he regarded the church as a society composed exclusively of the just.

Although Hippolytus' reputation as a scholar and his literary talent were assets to his cause, the church chose Calixtus for the papacy when Zephyrinus died. In disgust, Hippolytus withdrew from the Roman community and headed a dissident group that consecrated him. He reigned in opposition to the succeeding pontificates of Saints Urban I (222–230) and Pontian (230–235), with whom he was exiled to the mines of Sardinia in 235 during the persecution of Christians by the Roman emperor Maximinus.

There he became reconciled with Pontian and exhorted his supporters to unite with Rome. Before dying as martyrs, both resigned to allow for a successor, St. Anterus (235–236), thus ending the schism. Pope St. Fabian (236–250) had their corpses brought to Rome for solemn burial.

Rather than an original theologian, Hippolytus was a laborious, learned compiler whose writings were often marred by an embittered, controversial tone. The West soon forgot him because he was a schismatic and because he wrote in Greek.

His most important work is considered to be Philosophumena (one part of a larger work called Refutation of All Heresies), which seeks to show that the various Christian heresies are traceable to false pagan philosophies.

The church order, known as the Apostolic Tradition (extant only in later versions; Eng. trans. by G. Dix, 1937), is now generally attributed to him and illuminates the rites and liturgies in use at Rome in the early 3rd century AD.

[DelphiUser]

Hippolytus, Good stuff, since I always want to give as authoritative of a link as possible, see (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07360c.htm )

“Hippolytus, on the contrary, stood uncompromisingly for a real difference between the Son (Logos) and the Father, but so as to represent the Former as a Divine Person almost completely separate from God”

“Hippolytus was the most important theologian and the most prolific religious writer of the Roman Church in the pre-Constantinian era. Nevertheless the fate of his copious literary remains has been unfortunate. Most of his works have been lost or are known only through scattered fragments, while much has survived only in old translations into Oriental and Slavic languages; other writings are freely interpolated. The fact that the author wrote in Greek made it inevitable that later, when that language was no longer understood in Rome, the Romans lost interest in his writings, while in the East they were read long after and made the author famous.”

Boy I would love to read those books!

[sirchtruth]

Thanks for proving my point. I'll challenge you to show me why anyone in this world should believe in Mormonism when propecies of the self proclaimed prophet Joseph have failed...and because they have, we know by the Word Mr. Smith can NOT be a prophet.

You also read the History of the Joseph to get some balance as well!

Maybe you should read this more carefully because there is clear contradictions between Smith's Fantasy Tales and the Truth.

Which one are you going to chose to believe?

[restornu]

The LDS Love all of the Word of God!


Until you can tell me about the history of the Prophet you have read from LDS scholars than I might take your disagreements seriously!

[sirchtruth]

Until you can tell me about the history of the Prophet you have read from LDS scholars than I might take your disagreements seriously!

If you would take a moment and take a look outside your current perspective maybe you would understand why the holy scripture is in direct contradiction with Mormonism.

Btw, the history of Mormonism, The Book Of Mormon, The Pearl Of Great Price, and Joseph Smith personal life has changed so much by so many of those LDS scholars it's laughable.

This is a believing faith, you chose to believe what you will...

[restornu]

You let others do your homework until you do it yourself it is only heresay!:)

[JRochelle]

Well we all know that Smith didn't obey # 17.
He coveted his neighbors' wife, daughter, maid, etc etc.

And then he figured out a way to get them into his bed!

How convenient for him!!

[restornu]

only in some folks minds....

[restornu]

I thought you would like this what the BYU ED has online!

History of Vatican City: Primary Documents
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/vatican.html

[tmp02]

Time doesn't matter as much trying to make an immitation of the real thing.

[tmp02]

Your JC is different from my Jesus Christ the Son of God, born of a virgin, died on the cross for my sins, arose from the dead in 3 days, GONE to HEAVEN to prepare a place for me (Not New York City), IS SITTING at the right hand of the Father, will judge those who have no faith in HIM, created the world in 6 days (John 1:1-2),

[DelphiUser]

>>Time doesn't matter as much trying to make an immitation of the real thing.

Time does matter because it was part of the original challenge issued. (Write a book this long, include these things no rewrites, this much time, Go…) You can’t take any of the requirements away and say you’ve met the challenge, anymore than you can just claim to have won an election without having enough actual votes.

Oh, Democrats have done that… Sorry.

The challenge by the way does not address whether or not your write “Scripture” just a story with the following properties in the set amount of time.

Maybe I am not getting your point…

Oh, and #436, the only thing we believe different than what you said is the Suffering for sins happened in the Garden, the paying for Adam’s transgression happened with Jesus’ death on the Cross and resurrection. Other than that, I could have written what you did, and that is a small difference (Not disputing what, just where)

[Colofornian]

We are commanded to get to know God and Chist, (John 17: 3 http://scriptures.lds.org/john/17/3#3 ) John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Glad you quoted John 17:3. It shows eternal life is in a relationship, not just a time period (future tense).

Eternal life, therefore is present tense. Just look at all the passages which say eternal life is now: John 3:36, 5:24; 1 John 5:11-12...for starters.

Did you know eternal life is now because it's based on a faith relationship of who you know and not based upon performance?

[Colofornian]

Are you trying to Shake my faith? (Not even Close). If you were trying to shake anyone’s faith, what a despicable thing to attempt.

Okay, so if we try to enlighten someone that the tulips in their backyard are not praiseworthy as gods, or that cows are not sacred because they were great-grandfather Joe, then "shaking" such a faith is "despicable," eh?

Better tell certain folks where white shirts & ties to stop going door to door. Might shake someone's faith their visiting (to hear the gospel was lost, in need of restoration).

You can't even be consistent w/the tenets of what you say you believe.

[Colofornian]

The “Mormon God is a god of accountability, the perception I have of the protestant God is that all you have to do is say “I believe” and go on sinning, because “God will take care of it.” and you have no responsibility to do anything.

Is this in contradistinction to the Mormon god who apparently says, "You take care of your sin. It's totally on your shoulders"???