Posted on 04/27/2006 3:03:34 PM PDT by restornu
>>This kind of "trap them before they know any better," tactic is abusive in my opinion.
Funny, what you call a trap, I call good teaching technique. I guess when I started with Algebra and they didn’t just dump me into Trig. That was a trap, man I really despise my teachers for trapping me into knowledge as I could understand it! (Get a Grip, you usually sound reasonable, you need to work on this area of your argument).
>>Have you read the statistics about how many converts actually stay active in the
>>Church after this "meat doctrine" is introduced.
Sadly, you are right, we lose too many by feeding them too fast, we should slow down.
My first reaction to your Trap statement was to laugh; you know how easy it is to get out of the LDS church, or just to go inactive (look how many figured it out in the second part of your post).
Be honest, how long would it take you to get your name removed? Could you do it by Mail? Is the cost of postage too much? Then go in person too your bishop, he’s got a form letter I’ll wager.
I mean come on! A trap is typically “Hard to get out of”.
The church is nothing but easy to get out of. Go back to your sins tell the Bishop to go to the warmest place you can think of and that you want out, he’ll set you up REAL fast, because he does not want to “add condemnation to your soul”. I’ve read the General Handbook of Instructions, I know.
So, can we dispense with this whole “Trap” claptrap, or can you substantiate your claims that it is a trap? (This is liable to be real fun :-)
I'm still a member of record because my mother has asked me not to remove my name from the records.
God has commanded that I honor my mother, and because I love both of them, I will obey them. : )
I don't love you or the LDS Church in that same way...so I don't care what you think about me...sorry. ; )
I was not trapped in the traditional way. I was born into it which is a different kind of "trap."
I googled "Mormon" and "Trap" and came up with this anti-mormon (as you call it) site.http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon376.htm. I'll let you and others make their own decision. As for me an my house we will avoid the trap and serve the Lord.
The link doesn't work. You can cut and paste it.
Of what men do you speak ?
The writings of the New Testament were all written by the first Apostles of Jesus Christ ... and their disciples.
If you can't trust them to accurately deliver the gospel of Jesus Christ ... who can you trust ? ~ Quester
***
Amazing one would with all seriousness ask that question in that matter!
Just amazing to protray me as stupid!
Answer
Those political clergy of Constantine debated and decided the nature of the Godhead Nicene Creed, which scripture were less offensive to the function world government were NOT part of Lord annoited Priesthood!
someone thinks you need to be recovered?
It is a interesting of the seperating wheat from the shaft!
Not to be confused with tares.
>>Can you state with certainty that the LDS Church teaches that God was once a man
>>and that you may someday become equal to Him?
I can categorically say that we do not teach this! We can be come gods, and goddesses, but we will never be equal to God. He will always be our God. We will always owe him more than we can imagine for creating us and treating us so fairly and well.
Have you ever been in an interview with a reporter? I have, they take classes on how to ask “When did you stop beating your wife” questions, if you ever have the opportunity to represent any kind of a National group and are being interviewed, I have one piece of advice, “stay away from the ropes”.
Besides President Hinckley is a little older than you (I think, 92?), keeping up with the barrage of questions, his best answer many be “I Don’t know”.
>>Can you state with certainty …
Yes, I can. (That was fun *Grin*).
Now I suppose you want to know where and why the prophet would dodge at all on this. It’s really very simple. It is talked about in the Temple ceremonies, which are sacred, and which we covenant with God not to reveal outside of the Temple. Do you think the Reporter would have continued asking questions about the temple if president Hinckley had brought the temple and sacredness of it in to the discussion?
>>and that you may someday become equal to Him?
Our scriptures testify that thoes try to say we believe we will be equal to God is erroneous gossip!
Abraham 3
15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.
17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
"Kokaubeam"
What is a kokaubeam?
"Kokaubeam"
What is a kokaubeam?
>>This 'official history' of the early LDS Church is edited from the Utah church's
>>viewpoint. Although the church hasn’t officially denounced this history as being
>>written by someone other than Joseph Smith, the fact is that much of it was not written
>>by him and most of it was put together after he was dead.
Is there a source for this, or do you have personal knowledge (NY Times journalism standards?)
>>The early church historians did many creative things with this history including adding
>>prophecies attributable to Joseph Smith that had been “fulfilled” after his death.
>>(Hmmmm... seems like the early Christians did the same thing). The early historians
>>also censored much of the material to make it more “faith promoting”.
There are two kinds of lies, lies and damnable lies, this falls into the second category. To state propaganda from an obvious anti site well, I had thought better of you CC.
>>I'm still searching for an "official" Church issued statement that this book is accurate.
>>Logophile Do you know?
You will search in vain.
Give ma a minute, I am writing your ‘Official History’, and will have it posted shortly. /Sarc
A smaller planet around about the the realm of Celestial Kingdom of the Lord!
See what I mean? Somebody can go on eternally citing the Bible, and what does our friendly LDS self-appointed apologist do? He pulls out his "trump card," in which the training is ingrained, "when backed into a corner, always say, 'Insofar as correctly translated. That'll throw enough suspicion onto to the text so that we won't have to deal with it.'"
If you've got problems with the "translation," what's wrong with Joseph Smith's so-called "translation" of John 14:9 (even though he didn't know much Greek) in the Inspired Version? Or don't you trust Smith, either?
You can't win for losing w/a good number of LDS folks. Some will use John 14:9 as some sort of proof text that since you can see Jesus--and He has a body of flesh & bones--then likewise you can see the Father, who must have the same.
So for those LDS, John 14:9 is a fave proof-text. But for our friend, here, nope. We'll just throw down the veto card.
"Give ma a minute, I am writing your ‘Official History’, and will have it posted shortly. /Sarc"
Ok.....you made me snort coffee!! :)
Thanks.
>>this very same Paul warns the NT Christians
Link? Refrence?
Gal 1:9
>>The link doesn't work. You can cut and paste it.
you left a period in at the end :-) (Been there, got the T-shirt)
Try this: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon376.htm
Do I detect a scent of smugness in this post [#99]?
If names are so important to prophetic status, then pray tell, who is the first prophet after Joshua as mentioned in Judges 6:7-10? Who was the "man of God" in 1 Kings 13:1? Who was the "old prophet" in 1 Kings 13:25?
You can't tell me 'cause it's not there. Prophets were to exalt God's Word & not seek their own glory. The first of these unnamed prophets appeared in the time of Gideon when Israel was falling back into idolatry. Rather than speak of the future, he called Israel to remember the Lord who delivered them from Egypt.
Again, you seem all caught up with status. While some OT prophets were called for a lifetime, others spoke only briefly (Numbers 11:25-26).
The importance is some "office" to be attached to each prophet, rather it's the Word of the Lord Himself. It was to be a faithful proclamation of God's Word--not their own (Jer 23:16; Eze 13:2).
And it's in this vein that the Lord can temporarily use whoever He wants. For example, Balaam is a clear Biblical enemy of the Lord and His people. Yet who was it that prophesied the Lord's message in Numbers 22:6-24:24? Balaam!
You err on several points in your philosophy/theology of prophets:
(1) LDS believe prophets are called by fellow men--general authorities...that God speaks through general authorities or a previous prophet to establish the next prophet or through chronological years to determine who the next prophet will be. No. Prophets in the Bible received their call directly from God. Some, like Jeremiah or John the Baptist, were called before birth (Jer 1:5; Luke 1:13-126). Their authority came from God whose message they bore (Exodus 7:1-2).
(2) Why only one "living" prophet at a time? Four prophets appeared in the time of David (Gad, Nathan, Zadok, Heman). Four prophets appeared during the time of Jeroboam I (Ahijah, Iddo the Seer, "a Man of God" of 1 Kings 13:1, and "an old prophet" in 1 Kings 13:25. Many of the major prophets were contemporaries of each other. The Lord's true prophets know no competition; yet you would have all with a prophetic gift be a rival to the throne of Salt Lake City [note your wording "calling a prophet"].
As for the Scripture that shows Jesus Christ is our Prophet, and is therefore not trumped by any Utah-based mortal: Hebrews 1:1-2.
Don't force me to publish the rest. We'll be here all night.
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