[Zionist Conspirator]

I will reiterate this again: aside from some of the "Modern Orthodox," some in academia, and a few Sefaradi intellectuals, all Orthodox Jews--creationist or evolutionist--believe that the Torah was written by G-d and dictated to Moses letter-for-letter, and that once one arrives at the creation of Adam the Torah becomes literal. This is a far cry from chr*stian and atheist evolutionists who view the entire Torah as mythology whose only purpose is to convey philosophical concepts. With the few exceptions mentioned above ALL Orthodox Jews believe in the literal historicity of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Methuselah (and that he lived 969 years), Noah's flood, the Tower of Babel, the Three Patriarchs, the Egyptian slavery and all the miracles of the Exodus, etc. The entire traditional Biblical/Jewish chronology is adhered to even by mainstream Orthodox Jews who are evolutionists. Even Dr. Gerald Schroeder switches to Jerry Falwell mode once Adam arrives on the scene on the Sixth Day of Creation.

These facts are often omitted by Orthodox Jews who are evolutionist or who hold that evolution is a legitimate interpretation of the Torah. This creates the impression that evolutionist Orthodox Jews buy into the JEPD/Biblical criticism/Torah-as-mythology philosophy without actually saying this and removes any real or perceived pressure not to be seen as "fundies" by the non-Jewish world. Personally, I regard it as cowardly and dishonest to defend Darwin while omitting the very important point that Darwin stops when Adam appears.

Nor do you hear much about some of the wilder theories of Orthodox Jewish evolutionists, such as that the dinosaurs evolved into the beings we know as angels today, that the earth is hollow and the home of demons, or that the tabernacle was made of the skin of unicorns. And yes, these are the beliefs of Orthodox Jews who criticize creationism for being unscientific! (NB: I am not ridiculing a "hollow earth" or another dimension inhabited by strange beasts per se; I am pointing out the inconsistency of holding to these things while using "science" to attack creationism.)

However, what Klinghoffer is attacking is not evolution per se but the notion of the eternity of the universe, once a dogma of atheists. Atheists today no longer claim the universe is eternal (admitting that at one point it didn't exist and then suddenly it did), but they insist that this big bang was a natural phenomenon, even though nature was the result of the big bang, was brought into existence by it, and therefore could not have caused the big bang (though there are a few of the more mystical atheists who believe that unalterable natural law exists outside reality as we know it, presiding over the creation and extinction of innumerable universes). Spontaneous self creation (which implies the big bang was caused by its result, natural law) is far more illogical than the mere eternity of the universe, and I wish Klinghoffer had said something about this.

[balrog666]

In the philosophical system elaborated by Darwin and his disciples, there is no room for a creator in any sense.

What philosophical system would that be? Or do you mean science?

To explain the existence of life without reference to a deity was Darwin's entire purpose.

Uh, no, not even close according to the historical record.

[Alter Kaker]

You can count the number of creationist Jews on the fingers of one hand -- for good reason, because Jews aren't stupid.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Klinghoffer is virtually alone among Orthodox Jews in attacking Darwin's theory. As I have pointed out elsewhere, most Orthodox Rabbis-- and all Conservative and Reform Rabbis-- have no problem with interpreting Genesis in a figurative way, so long as it is understood that (a) God created the universe, and (b) He created humanity in His spiritual image. How God did this is within the domain of science, and is really of little importance to Judaism.

[M203M4]

Entertainment place-marker.

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

Note: Darwin was a rebellious character who was a seminary student, gone bad...

[PetroniusMaximus]

reference ping

[Junior]

The Conspiracy That Cares

Corrupting the World's Youth Since 1859

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April 18, 2006

The CrevoSci Archive

Since June 25, 1999

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Keyword Searches

• CREATION
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Box Scores
(All values subject to change)

Year	Threads	Daily Avg.
1999	42	0.12
2000	120	0.33
2001	256	0.70
2002	442	1.21
2003	542	1.48
2004	520	1.42
2005	1395	3.82
2006	548	5.12
Totals	3866	1.55

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Lost Threads	%
44	1.14

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Participants	Banned	%
1159	129	11.13

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Freepdays for April

1. [04/05/2001] <1/1,000,000th%
   
2. [04/27/2001] A2J
   
3. [04/22/2003] AdmSmith
   
4. [04/26/1999] Amos the Prophet
   
5. [04/20/2000] anguish
   
6. [04/01/2005] BigFinn
   
7. [04/12/2005] bigmac0707
   
8. [04/28/2003] Blzbba
   
9. [04/27/2005] bobbdobbs
   
10. [04/03/1998] ckilmer
    
11. [04/10/1998] connectthedots
    
12. [04/03/2001] cryptical
    
13. [04/26/2005] david ford
    
14. [04/03/1998] D-fendr
    
15. [04/19/2001] Diddle E. Squat
    
16. [04/24/2001] Doe Eyes
    
17. [04/27/2001] dogbyte12
    
18. [04/23/1998] DouglasKC
    
19. [04/23/2000] elfman2
    
20. [04/07/1998] ex-snook
    
21. [04/21/2004] flevit
    
22. [04/15/2003] forty_years
    
23. [04/18/2004] GretchenM
    
24. [04/11/2001] handk
    
25. [04/06/2003] hiho hiho
    
26. [04/26/2001] JmyBryan
    
27. [04/13/2001] JohnnyM
    
28. [04/22/2003] JTN
    
29. [04/12/1999] JudyB1938
    
30. [04/02/2003] Kokojmudd
    
31. [04/13/2001] Liberal Classic
    
32. [04/09/1999] LiteKeeper
    
33. [04/23/2000] Mamzelle
    
34. [04/14/2002] mhking
    
35. [04/14/2004] newsgatherer
    
36. [04/06/2001] Non-Sequitur
    
37. [04/01/2003] nosofar
    
38. [04/29/1999] OBAFGKM
    
39. [04/25/1999] ovrtaxt
    
40. [04/02/2006] Paddlefish
    
41. [04/26/2000] pageonetoo
    
42. [04/12/2001] Paleo Conservative
    
43. [04/24/2003] Paloma_55
    
44. [04/26/2001] RadioAstronomer
    
45. [04/09/2000] sarcasm
    
46. [04/25/1998] sirchtruth
    
47. [04/11/2003] Sola Veritas
    
48. [04/04/2005] USFRIENDINVICTORIA
    
49. [04/02/1998] Wallace T.
    
50. [04/08/2002] whattajoke
    
51. [04/24/2005] Wrangler22
    
52. [04/23/1999] zbogwan2
    
53. [04/21/2004] Zhangliqun
    

CrevoSci Threads for the Past Week

1. 04/18/2006 Darwin is a Problem for Jews [Religion]
2. 04/18/2006 We believe in ET, not ID [Darwin, SETI, & ID in one thread!]
3. 04/17/2006 Environmentalism and the apocalypse
4. 04/17/2006 Schizophrenia as Misstep by Giant Gene [Chat]
5. 04/16/2006 Media Overblows Claims of 'Human Evolution': Examining the Newest 'Missing Link'
6. 04/16/2006 Science does not challenge my faith - it strengthens it [Bishop of Oxford]
7. 04/15/2006 Rebutting Darwinists: (Survey shows 2/3 of Scientists Believe in God)
8. 04/15/2006 The end of humanism: Mankind doesn’t fare too well in cutting-edge intellectual thinking
9. 04/13/2006 Creature's picture irks Board of Ed member (FSM alert)
10. 04/13/2006 Evolution follows few of the possible paths to antibiotic resistance
11. 04/13/2006 Fossil Find Is Missing Link in Human Evolution, Scientists Say
12. 04/13/2006 Inheritance Is More Than Gene Deep
13. 04/13/2006 Royal Society statement on evolution, creationism and intelligent design
14. 04/13/2006 Singularity Summit At Stanford Explores Future Of 'Superintelligence'
15. 04/12/2006 A Darwinian View of Immigration
16. 04/12/2006 Addressing Religious Beliefs (Intelligent Design) In Class [Smoky Back Room]
17. 04/12/2006 Ancient fossils fill gap in early human evolution [Chat]
18. 04/12/2006 Both antievolution bills in Maryland dead
19. 04/12/2006 Darwin Was Not Influenced by Science [Religion]
20. 04/12/2006 Fossil connects human evolution dots [Chat]
21. 04/12/2006 Scaring for money
22. 04/12/2006 Seeking Ancestry in DNA Ties Uncovered by Tests
23. 04/11/2006 Christianity: child abuse? A virus? (Evolutionist Dawkins thinks Christianity is child abuse) [Bloggers]
24. 04/11/2006 Debris Disks Show Solar System Design [Religion]
25. 04/11/2006 Female red-back availability determines male's size: study
26. 04/11/2006 Intelligent design goes Ivy League: Cornell offers course despite president denouncing theory
27. 04/11/2006 Rio Rancho school board approves new policy concerning evolution, Big Bang
28. 04/11/2006 Scopes: The Battle Over America's Soul (Upcoming tomorrow on History Channel) [Chat]
29. 04/11/2006 Time to Give It Up [Intelligent Design and Irreducible Complexity]

This week in CrevoSci History

1. 04/18/2005 Can creationists be scientists? [Bloggers]
2. 04/18/2005 Fossil turtles confound evolutionists (Creation vs. Evolution)
3. 04/16/2005 Preshistoric Jawbone Reveals Evolution Repeating Itself
4. 04/15/2005 Intellectual honesty devolves (Anti-Bush, Anti-Religion, WPost Barf Alert!)
5. 04/15/2005 Reproductive riddle unscrambled [Fossilized eggs found inside dinosaur supports a link with birds]
6. 04/14/2005 'Andrew McIntosh, Mathematics' (Creation vs. Evolution...there has to be a Designer) [Chat]
7. 04/13/2005 Salamanders are 'living fossils'? (Creation vs. Evolution) [Bloggers]
8. 04/13/2005 Scientists Analyze Chromosomes 2 and 4: Discover Largest 'Gene Deserts'
9. 04/13/2005 The Big Lab Experiment Was our universe created by design?
10. 04/13/2005 Upper Paleolithic blues: Consequences of recent dating fiasco on human evolutionary prehistory [Bloggers]
11. 04/12/2005 Archaeoraptor hoax update: National Geographic recants [Bloggers]
12. 04/12/2005 Can creationist be scientists? [Bloggers]
13. 04/12/2005 Sacred constant might be changing
14. 04/12/2005 The Geologic Column: Does It Exist? (Creation vs. Evolution) [Chat]
15. 04/12/2005 Truth is a monkey on pols' backs (Richard Cohen: 'Half Of America Rejects Theory Of Evolution.'
16. 04/11/2005 The Science of Design
17. 04/10/2005 Mammoth, Tusks Found by Los Angeles-Area Builders
18. 04/10/2005 Scientists shun Kansas evolution hearing
19. 04/18/2004 Dancing Girls And The Merry Magdalenian (13,000 Y.O. Painting, UK)
20. 04/17/2004 Distorting science for the secular agenda
21. 04/17/2004 IRS raids business, home of creationist (Dr. Dino)
22. 04/16/2004 Evolution: Like a Waterfall That Flows Upward! [Bloggers]
23. 04/16/2004 Oldest Jewelry? 'Beads' Discovered in African Cave
24. 04/15/2004 Evolution’s Mirror in a Fish’s Spines [Micro vs. Macro Evolution]
25. 04/15/2004 Old Stones Reveal Their Age (New Dating Method: Quartz Hydration)
26. 04/14/2004 How likely is human extinction?
27. 04/14/2004 Old Mound My Lead To New Ideas About People 5,000 Years Ago (Mexico)
28. 04/14/2004 Study Finds Sex Differences in Chimpanzee Learning
29. 04/13/2004 Archaeologist Talks About Oregon's Early Natives
30. 04/13/2004 Humans Took 1000 Years To Tame Wild Plants
31. 04/13/2004 Italian Skeletons Reveal Old World Diseases
32. 04/13/2004 Who really discovered America? (Evidence that the Jews did!)
33. 04/12/2004 CNN Accused of Fabricating Controversy in Missouri Evolution Story
34. 04/12/2004 Ethiopia to Exhibit 'Lucy' Fossil in United States
35. 04/11/2004 Split Between English and Scots Older Than Thought
36. 04/10/2004 Scientific integrity and the gospel of Christ
37. 04/16/2003 Latest Creationist Effort, E for effort... but totally lame (Warning: Large Image) [Religion]
38. 04/14/2003 Study of the Cosmos Proceeds, But Will Take New Directions
39. 04/11/2003 Mass-extinction controversy flares again (Chicxulub crater kills dinosaurs, or not?)
40. 04/11/2003 Scientist Defends Account Of Exodus
41. 04/10/2003 NASA Researchers Put New Spin On Einstein's Relativity Theory
42. 04/18/2002 Primate ancestor lived with dinos
43. 04/17/2002 Details Revealed About Huge Dinosaurs
44. 04/17/2002 MUTATED MUMMICHOGS: Scientist Studies Tiny Fishes' Adaptation to Pollution
45. 04/17/2002 Scientists Discover New Insects
46. 04/17/2002 Scientists push back primate origins
47. 04/16/2002 A Blast From The Sun
48. 04/16/2002 Is This The Real Noah's Ark, Found At Last? The Mystery Of The 'Ararat Anomaly'
49. 04/15/2002 'Anti-freeze' chemical found in Milky Way
50. 04/15/2002 Medieval Black Death Was Probably Not Bubonic Plague
51. 04/15/2002 Super Ant Colony Found in Europe
52. 04/15/2002 Super Ant Colony Found in Europe [Chat]
53. 04/14/2002 'Intelligent Design Creationism and Its Critics': Supernatural Selection
54. 04/13/2002 To Creationists: Is There a Global Conspiracy to Promote Evolution? [Pulled]
55. 04/12/2002 And then there was... postmodernism (leftists pushing an anti-evolution agenda) [Religion]
56. 04/12/2002 Radar Reveals Five Double Asteroid Systems Orbiting Each Other Near Earth [Chat]
57. 04/12/2002 Scientists Say Asteroids' Bigger Belt Is Nothing To Worry About [Chat]
58. 04/11/2002 A great leap backwards
59. 04/11/2002 Most distant galaxy cluster found [Chat]
60. 04/11/2002 Researchers Uncover Brain Patterns That Differentiate Humans From Chimpanzees
61. 04/11/2002 Scientists sort the chimps from the men
62. 04/10/2002 (Creationists) CRSC Correction [Pulled]
63. 04/10/2002 Bush: 'Life Is A Creation, Not A Commodity'
64. 04/10/2002 Weird Stars Show Evidence of New Form of Matter
65. 04/17/2001 Redheads 'are neanderthal'
66. 04/11/2001 Computers that Improve Themselves
67. 04/10/2001 Before the Big Bang
68. 04/10/2001 Do You Believe in Evolution?
69. 04/10/2001 Virus in DNA 'is cause of mental illness'
70. 04/18/2000 SCIENCE & CREATIONISM: Frequently Asked Questions
71. 04/11/2000 The Magic of Evolutionary Speciation, Part III

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[Right Wing Professor]

But since then, the intellectual trend has changed directions. The Discovery Institute has compiled a list of Darwin-doubting scientists, a list currently standing at more than 500 doctoral researchers at places like Berkeley, Princeton and MIT.

This is a falsehood. The DI list contains some scientists who earned their Ph.D.s at Berkeley Princeton and MIT, but not a single current researcher at any of the three places.

[onedoug]

I belive in God, Intelligent Design, Torah and the "development" of life, which may take in evolution.