IT's NOT JUST ABOUT THE MASS!!!

Young Traditional Catholics.com ^ | 11 APR 06 | The Server X-Angel

[xangel0228]

"Doesn't your reply to me contradict what you yourself wrote?"

Not At all.

Given: Vatican II was legitmately called.
Result: Led to very ambiguous documents, open to wide interpretation.

Therefore the problem is that the Council that was called led to these documents that the modernists ran with.

So therefore, by nulling the council, you null the problem that exists, and stop this social experiment of ecumenism and liturgical experimentation.

(And before you reacted to that, I know that ecumenism has been a church belief for a long time, but that was to get people to come to the Church, and not have the church be relegated to the rest of protestantism, which is what the Novus ORdo Missae does for the most part.)

[steadfastconservative]

What sophistry! You are, in fact, contradicting yourself, trying to have it both ways. When writing for a sympathetic audience, that is for those who visit your blog, you blame Vatican II for everything that has gone wrong in the Church for the last forty years and you call for it to be declared "null and void." But when someone calls you on this radical statement, you back away from it and try to nuance what you are saying. If your arguments were grounded in truth, you would not resort to this kind of tactic.

[xangel0228]

I have never denied the fact that Vatican II was a legitimate council. Look through the archive of my site...I have never said anything to the like of that.

The fruits of Vatican II is what is killing the "public face" Church right now...

I have not backed off of anything.

There have been plenty of councils that have either been nulled, or at least some of the documents from them.

What people cannot stand about tradition is that it is FIXED, and unchanging, and not open to novelties...such as the Novus Ordo...which is so close to a Protestant service its not even funny.

Please remember... I used to adhere to the Novus Ordo... I began to see what was wrong with it (no just opinion...what was doctrinally wrong), and for the sanctity of my soul..left it...that DOES NOT make me a heretic nor a schismatic since NOTHING of Vatican II was abolished or abrogated.

Just what is it about pre-Vatican II Masses and Sacraments, and observnaces, etc. scares and/or bothers you so much?

I will pray for you tonight, steadfast. I honestly care for you, and I hope nothing but the best for you.

[steadfastconservative]

Don't split hairs. Your demand that Vatican II be declared "null and void" is tantamount to saying the Council was illegitimate.

I never called you a heretic or a schismatic.

During his Christmas address to the Curia on Dec. 22, Benedict XVI said that many theologians have wrongly interpreted Vatican II as repudiating what the Church taught before the Council. Moreover, these people have preferred to follow a mythical "spirit of Vatican II" rather than its letter. They have used this "spirit of Vatican II" to advocate changes that the Council did not order and to promote teachings it did not endorse. However, the pope did not conclude that we must declare the Council to be "null and void" but rather that we must interpret it in light of Tradition. (Tradition refers to doctrine NOT practice.) That is, the decrees of the Council are consistent with everything that the Church taught up to that time and they must be interpreted in the light of earlier teaching.

When you advocate that Rome declare the Council to be "null and void," you are wrongly blaming the Council for the misinterpretation and misuse of its decrees by Modernist theologians and experts who used them to promote their own agenda. But you are not following the mind of the pope.

Finally, I have nothing against the Tridentine Mass; I think it would be good if the pope grants permssion for its universal celebration. However, as you have pointed out, the discontent of radical Traditionalists is not really based upon the fact that the Tridentine Mass is not available in many places. It is based upon their misinterpretation and rejection of Vatican II, which they blame for everything bad that has happened in the Church over the last 40 years. You wait and see: if the pope grants this permission, many Traditionalists will still demand the suppression of the Missal of Paul VI and for the decrees of Vatican II to be revoked.