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US [Episcopal] churches mix traditional hymns with U2 rock anthems
Ireland OnLine ^ | 4/02/2006

Posted on 04/02/2006 5:21:50 PM PDT by sionnsar

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To: sionnsar

"Lord, your servant Bono didst sacrifice himself in the recording studio for all our sakes and didst selflessly put down track after track that we might better know the sacred mysteries of Your love. Grant that through the beauty of his angelic melodies and earthy expletives, we may come to know and serve you always. We ask this, in Jesus name. Amen."

St. f*#!!&g Bono...............pray for us........

Blessed Edge, patron saint of raucous noise.......pray for us.


21 posted on 04/03/2006 7:29:57 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: tellw

But the most important job of the choir is to lead the congregation in singing hymns. If the choir is not enough of a presence, the people don't know where to stop and where to start. It's frustrating. The anthems are the choir's treat, their chance to strut their stuff. Service music is a leadership role too.


22 posted on 04/03/2006 7:30:18 AM PDT by Flavius Josephus (War today is always cheaper than war tomorrow.)
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To: JustMytwocents70

As Hank Hill once said "Can't you see you're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock n' roll worse."


23 posted on 04/03/2006 7:38:49 AM PDT by Flavius Josephus (War today is always cheaper than war tomorrow.)
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To: JustMytwocents70
Exactly. I love to listen to Glenn Miller music on the radio, but that hardly makes Pennsylvania 6-5000 a hymn.
24 posted on 04/03/2006 7:44:46 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: sionnsar
>>Actually, choirs get good not by making noise but by
>>learning to sing as clearly and quietly as possible.

>And on key.

It helps you stay on key too because you hear each other better and you don't oversing.

25 posted on 04/03/2006 8:43:30 AM PDT by tellw
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To: Flavius Josephus
Churches that spend a lot on singers make me sick. That's why I quit my old choir.

It depends on what kind of singers they are spending money on. If the singers can sight-read and sing with clarity and precision all the time, and come to every rehearsal and service, they are worth the investment. I'd make the same argument in favor of investing in a top quality pipe organ or a church with good acoustics. If you build it, they will come. If you put forward mediocre music, you will have mediocre worship.

26 posted on 04/03/2006 8:48:40 AM PDT by tellw
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To: Flavius Josephus
But the most important job of the choir is to lead the congregation in singing hymns. If the choir is not enough of a presence, the people don't know where to stop and where to start. It's frustrating. The anthems are the choir's treat, their chance to strut their stuff. Service music is a leadership role too.

Even quietly sung music carries much better than spoken words in a building. Sure, a choir should sing out on the last verse of The Church's One Foundation but I have also heard many times where the choir sings at piano or pianissimo on the middle verse of a quiet hymn, and the congregation quiets down too and the effect is stunning. In fact, it's neat to sing entire verses of hymns with no organ playing, just the choir singing quietly and the congregation singing quietly. Give more credit to the congregation and turn down the volume!

27 posted on 04/03/2006 8:52:57 AM PDT by tellw
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To: sionnsar
My first visit to the local Episcopal church was to a 11a.m. service. I was disappointed by all the guitar solos and "hug thy neighbor" stuff.

Later I discovered that this service was to attract young people. The traditional morning service with choir and organ is held at 8.45a.m. - and beautiful it is.

28 posted on 04/03/2006 8:58:36 AM PDT by Churchillspirit (Anaheim Angels - 2002 World Series Champions)
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To: Churchillspirit

The different services are often done differently, as you noted. If there's an 8 AM, it's usually without music -- and if it's an Episcopal church (thus almost certainly using the 1979 liturgy) often "Rite I", whereas "Rite II" is usually used for the other services.


29 posted on 04/03/2006 9:28:17 AM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† | Libs: Celebrate MY diversity! | Iran Azadi 2006)
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To: tellw

Hmmmm... I'm not totally against section leaders, but I think the music is something a parish should make for itself. "Store-bought" worship music is a) bad stewardship, b) not conducive to worship, and c) unnecessary. I think all parishes have plenty of talent to create a nice product, albeit some may be able to do more complex things than others.


30 posted on 04/03/2006 9:52:17 AM PDT by Flavius Josephus (War today is always cheaper than war tomorrow.)
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To: tellw
it's neat to sing entire verses of hymns with no organ playing, just the choir singing quietly

We used to do that and I miss it. Of course we would be singing in 4-pt harmony and the cong. would take the melody, but it was very nice, you're right. I'm certainly not saying it should be all beltissimo all the time -- the mark of an excellent choir is being able handle the dynamics.

31 posted on 04/03/2006 9:55:22 AM PDT by Flavius Josephus (War today is always cheaper than war tomorrow.)
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To: Flavius Josephus
Hmmm... I'm not totally against section leaders, but I think the music is something a parish should make for itself. "Store-bought" worship music is a) bad stewardship, b) not conducive to worship, and c) unnecessary. I think all parishes have plenty of talent to create a nice product, albeit some may be able to do more complex things than others.

How is it bad stewardship or not conducive to worship for a church to offer a music program that "worships the Lord in the beauty of holiness" (i.e. is professional or at least aspires to a professional standard)? Do we not pay for a professional priest to officiate services?

Churches with good choirs and good organs bring in congregations. Also a good idea: rip out any carpeting: it sucks up the sound.

32 posted on 04/03/2006 10:11:44 AM PDT by tellw
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To: tellw

Because if the people are not doing it, it leaves the volunteers who want to sing, and the congregation's involvement, out in the cold. In the Catholic church, they used to have great choirs and the people were expected to sit quietly. Is that what you think is proper?


33 posted on 04/03/2006 10:21:46 AM PDT by Flavius Josephus (War today is always cheaper than war tomorrow.)
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To: Flavius Josephus
Because if the people are not doing it, it leaves the volunteers who want to sing, and the congregation's involvement, out in the cold. In the Catholic church, they used to have great choirs and the people were expected to sit quietly. Is that what you think is proper? In a Catholic (or Anglican) Mass, there are many opportunities where choir and congregation should sing together. For example, the processional and recessional hymns, the Nicene Creed, The Lord's Prayer, and responses with the priest like the Sursum Corda (Lift up your hearts).

Other parts of the service I think are best for the choir to sing (e.g. a Mozart choral setting of the Mass -- Kyrie eleison/Gloria in excelsis/Sanctus/Benedictus/Agnus Dei).

Now I would assume that the professional (or professionally-augmented) choir would sing only one choral mass service on a Sunday, and that the other masses that day could be sung without a choir, by a solo cantor, an amateur choir, or a children's choir. No reason to leave anyone who wants to sing out in the cold, and people who build their singing skills to a reasonable degree should be afforded the chance (and the joy) of singing Mozart.

34 posted on 04/03/2006 11:43:48 AM PDT by tellw
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