Church Fathers Against Women's Ordination

Canterbury Tales ^ | 3/31/2006 | Father Peregrinator

[sionnsar]

Tertullian, in The Prescription of Heretics 41, says: "How wanton are the women of these heretics! they dare to teach, . to dispute, to carry out exorcisms, to undertake cures, it may be even to baptize." In his work On veiling virgins 9. 1:"It is not permissible for a woman to speak in church, nor may she teach, baptize, offer, or claim for herself any function proper to a man, and least of all the office of priest."

St. Irenaeus, Against Haereses 1. 31. 2 "After this he gave women mixed chalices and told them to give thanks in his presence. Then he took another chalice much larger than that on which the deceived woman gave thanks, and, pouring from the smaller... to the much later. . the larger chalice was filled from the smaller chalice and overflowed."

Firmilian, in Epistle 75. 1-5 to Cyprian, tells of a woman who went into an ecstasy and came out a prophetess. "That woman who first through marvels or deceptions of the demons did many things to deceive the faithful, among other things... she dared to do this, namely that by an impressive invocation she feigned she was sanctifying bread, and offering a sacrifice to the Lord."

Origen, in a Fragment of his commentary on 1 Cor 14:34 tells of the four daughters of Philip; who prophesied, yet they did not speak in the Churches. We do not find that in the Acts of the Apostles... . For it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."

St. Epiphanius, Against Heresies 79. 304 wrote: "If women were ordained to be priests for God or to do anything canonical in the church, it should rather have been given to Mary... . She was not even entrusted with baptizing... Although there is an order of deaconesses in the church, yet they are not appointed to function as priests, or for any administration of this kind, but so that provision may be made for the propriety of the female sex [at nude baptisms]. Whence comes the recent myth? Whence comes the pride of women or rather, the woman's insanity?" In 49. 2-3 St. Epiphanius tells of the Cataphrygians, a heretical sect related to the Montanists. The Cataphrygians pretended that a woman named Quintillia or Priscilla had seen Christ visiting her in a dream at Pepuza, and sharing her bed. He took the appearance of a woman and was dressed in white."Among them women are bishops and priests and they say nothing makes a difference' For in Christ Jesus there is neither male nor female, '' [Gal. 3:"28]

St. John Chrysostom, in On the Priesthood 2. 2 points out that Jesus said "Feed my sheep" only to Peter. "Many of the subjects could easily do the things I have mentioned, not only men, but also women. But when there is question of the headship of the church... let the entire female sex retire." And in 3. 9 St. John wrote: "Divine law has excluded women from the sanctuary, but they try to thrust themselves into it."

St. Augustine, On heresies 27 also speaks of the Pepuzians mentioned by St. Epiphanius. "They give such principality to women that they even honor them with priesthood."

Biretta tip to David MacDonald.

[Bainbridge]

By what standard do you measure things?
The Bible is exceedingly clear on both homosexuality( abominable sin) and womens "ordination"- not permitted.
If your standard is Holy Scripture, show me how you can accept these two innovations.

[Robertsll]

I don't think homosexuality is a sin, but I don't think it's an excuse for sinful behavior.

Homosexuality is commonly defined as sexual activity with a person of the same sex.

A homosexual who is celibate is not engaging in sinful behavior.

A homosexual often refers to a person who engages in homosexual activity. “Persons with SSA” (same sex attraction) is a more accurate description.

A homosexual who is not promiscuous but committed to one partner...I can't find that sinful.

Correct usage of the term homosexual. The other parts are your opinions and contrary to both natural law and divine revelation.

[SuzyQue]

You said:
"If that's how much you care what Scripture says, simple honesty demands leaving Christianity altogether."

I said and asked:
"This is an odd statement. Care to explain what you mean?"

You didn't answer this question. Not sure what questions you were answering, but I don't think they were any of mine.

[A.J.Armitage]

Since I'm apparently being interrogated: No, I don't care to explain. It's clear enough already.

[FormerLib]

Considering that Christ Himself did not select any women as Apostles and that his Apostles did not consider any women as candidates for deacon, the question concerns which tradition you will follow: that of Christ and His Apostles or someone else's?