450th Anniversary of Cranmer's Martyrdom

meam commemorationem ^ | 3/21/2006

[Upbeat]

I believe that he wanted a male heir. His son, Edward assumed the throne upon Henry's death, but he was sickly and didn't live very long. I can't remember who Edward's mother was. With Henry's six wives I get rather confused at my age. Upon Edward's death there was an abortive attempt to place Lady Jane Gray who was a Protestant on the throne.That didn't work and she lost her head, literally. Then Mary assumed the throne.

[pravknight]

Cranmer was a butcher, not a martyr.

[wmfights]

"I'm fairly certain that Catherine was the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain."

That's what the connection was, I had the wrong country in mind. At this time wasn't Spain, as France was, very closely aligned with the Roman Church?
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"Btw, one of my sons is a Baptist."

Sounds like a great family. I'll bet he's witnessing to you already.

[wmfights]

"I know the answer is no. Catherine was from Spain, not France."
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I stand corrected.

[Robertsll]

Edward VI's mother was Jane Seymour.

[Upbeat]

Thanks for the clarification

[Robertsll]

We can call Cranmer - the Mozart of Prayer Books. I don't mind that one bit.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone would want him to be a martyr of their faith. If he stood up to King Henry VIII's excesses, then I would have no problem with it.

Cranmer gave support and legitimacy to the killing of tens of thousands of Englishmen, not because he thought it was the right thing to do... He did it because it was the most expedient thing to do. What a nice guy.

[Robertsll]

No problem. :)

[Upbeat]

The Reformation made virtually no inroads in Spain. OTOH in France, Calvinism had gained a foothold. As many as 10% of the population followed the Reformed faith. There were all sorts of religious wars going on around the time of Henry VIII. In 1685 The Edict of Nantes which gave the Protestants certain rights was revoked leading to emigration and forced conversions. There is a small remnant of this group left, mainly in the south of France.

[wmfights]

"The Reformation made virtually no inroads in Spain."
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Boy I wish I remembered where I had heard/read that part of Henry VIII motivation was a concern about the sovereignty of England. I appreciate your posting the info.

Thanks

[Upbeat]

You're welcome-Blessings

[pravknight]

Cranmer's "prayer book" was a heretical innovation. The real martyrs were the thousands who were butchered in Cornwall for refusing to accept his prayerbook.

At least Anglicanism started getting some theological sanity in the Oxford movement.

[pravknight]

Yeah, the Calvinists in France were the ones whose influence resulted in the anti-Christian "Enlightenment." Rousseau anyone? Voltaire anyone?

Everywhere Calvinism touched in the world went to theological rot far sooner than the areas that remained solidly Catholic. Switzerland, Scotland, England, France, Holland, Germany, Massachusetts.

[Robertsll]

Rousseau anyone? Voltaire anyone?

My heros! ;) (sarcasm)

[pravknight]

If any Christian group legitemately deserves comparison to the Taliban, its the Calvinists. Puritan Massachusetts or Calvinist Geneva had quite a lot in common with Taliban Afghanistan.

Muhammad ibn Wahhab and John Calvin had quite a bit in common if you study their respective histories. Wahhab's goal was to purify Islam of the pacifist Sufi influence and restore the ethos of primitive Islam. Wahhab's followers destroyed the shrines of the Sufi saints and Martyrs, just as Calvin's followers did in Europe.

Non-Islamic philosophy was banned in Arabia, just as Calvin's followers tried to uproot the vestiges of Catholic philosophy.

Music was banned and all images were destroyed by both groups. For example, the Wahhabis who went to Bosnia to fight the Serbs whitewashed the beautiful mosaics in Ottoman-era mosques, just as the Calvinists whitewashed beautiful Catholic frecoes in their converted churches.

[Robertsll]

For example, the Wahhabis who went to Bosnia to fight the Serbs whitewashed the beautiful mosaics in Ottoman-era mosques

This I did not know. How sad.

[Upbeat]

Sadly, theological rot has now reached into all parts of Christianity.

[wmfights]

"Sadly, theological rot has now reached into all parts of Christianity."
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Maybe not. If rot is everywhere those that are truly seeking to understand The Father, Son and Holy Ghost have SCRIPTURE. The truth is there and once found fellowship with other believers is never far away.

[Upbeat]

I was referring to the abandonment of the values of Christian societies in almost all parts of the world. The Scripture is the truth and the only truth upon which we can base our faith. A liberal "troll" coming on this site must salivate to see how those claiming the name "Christ" can bash each other.

[wmfights]

"I was referring to the abandonment of the values of Christian societies in almost all parts of the world."
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I'm slow on the uptake sometimes.

I'm not as pessimistic. Yes, the industrialized nations are in decline. European churches are mostly museums and most "mainstream churches" in the USA are in decline. Our societies now embrace sinful behavior as "normal" with no fear of GOD'S WRATH. However, the most rapidly growing churches throughout the world are evangelical. Central American churches now send missionaries to the USA! I believe the power center on Earth for Christianity is just shifting to South America, Africa and Asia.