Posted on 03/14/2006 12:47:42 PM PST by tbird5
Yes, you are on.
“Your the one who implied that the bible I use was unreliable because it is "missing' some important information.
Perhaps you could quote me chapter and verse from your catholic edition where it states that praying to people in heaven is to be rpacticed by living Christians”
I do not have trouble with the KJV Bible (in fact it converted me to the Catholic Church) but as to your reading it … that I do not know about and your logic even less so. My point in bringing it up the problems with most modern Bibles is their limitations. For 1500+ years these books were available to those who could read and had the money to spend on such an expense as a Bible (and they were very expensive for most of the Christian era) Those limitation make themselves real clear when people with more ego than education decide they know better then the RCC, with over 2000 years of scholarship and debate over every little word and custom described in the Bible. Try reading some of the doctors of the Church and their works and you will soon discover that the thought and faith behind these men and women (yes there were women doctors in the RCC) will put those with more vanity than wisdom to shame.
I also wanted to illustrate your lack of understanding of basic words such a Gnostic, no “super secret” thing about it. You made the attempt to suggest that the Catholics having those books were Gnostic. But it is not the Catholic who holds these books away from the general public. It is not the RCC that has removed them and saved them for discernment to the “elect” in Bible College or Seminary. Now do not attempt to suggest that I am saying this makes Protestants Gnostic (you have give me sufficient reason to suspect you have a tendency to read into things that are not there. Or do I need to point out your Gnostic calumnity toward the Catholic Church yet again)
I also noticed you completely jumped past my point about the bones of one of the Prophets raising a man from the dead. I realize that it is easier for your position to pretend I never pointed that out but I am not feeling so charitable today to let you get away with it. I will not answer the second half of your post until you address my point about our use of Relics and the OT events that support this NT practice.
I do not even know why I am bothering with all this. After all there is an aspect of your posts (and on the first day you signed on) being this sort of anti-Catholic rant and slander. After all this is the Internet, for all any of us know you are some pleb in a liberal College fraternity working on admission by trying to start a religious war between Protestants and Catholics (all for grins and giggles to be sure). Perhaps this is some sort of coven with fellow Wicca followers. Who knows what moves you but your sense of logic is not very high which leaves me questioning your age and seriousness in Faith.
I grow up Protestant and I never heard this sort of thing then but rarely and even then from the more…..shall we say…..”adolescent” of believers.
John Paul II, Pray For You!
You know, Jesus, a number of times, said to the beneficiaries of his healing that "Your faith hath made you well." I'm sure you wouldn't argue with the notion that a persons personal faith can make them recover from something when another wouldn't, regardless of whether you ascribe it to a proactive intervention by God.
I personally agree that miracles are the worst sort of proof. Even if Jesus Christ Himself came down from heaven and started fulfilling Revelation, even though it were on TV around the world, there would be millions -- most I dare say -- who would say it's a trick, it's not real, I will NOT believe.
"You know, Jesus, a number of times, said to the beneficiaries of his healing that "Your faith hath made you well." I'm sure you wouldn't argue with the notion that a persons personal faith can make them recover from something when another wouldn't, regardless of whether you ascribe it to a proactive intervention by God. "
"That's a nice cuircular argument that there is no way out of. How do you know they "want" to canonize someone? Because they did?"
In the case of Teresa and John Paul II, I know that they wanted the canonization because there was a huge outcry for it from Catholics all over the world. That was my point, but I didn't make it clear, I guess. There is a huge lay movement for the canonization of John Paul II, and the Church is probably going to go for it.
Oh brother... (eyes rolling)
That "name calling' was in jest.
Surely at some point you have asked a friend, relative or pastor to pray for you or another person during a time of illness?
Why not ask someone who has died to do the same thing? Do you think that deceased friends or relatives don't care about what is going on in your life? Of course they care, and since they care, surely they would ask God to help you at this time?
But don't you ask your friends or pastor to pray for you or your family? Why not ask a relative who is deceased to pray to God for the same people? Your relative still loves and cares about you; going to Heaven wouldn't change that.
Gnosticism is the belief that knowledge will save you. In reality, you will find that many (if not most) Protestant sects are Gnostic. They believe that one must actually accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior to be saved. To do this, one must know of Christ's existence. The classic example of the good pagan (a person who, through no fault of his own, has had no opportunity to know anything about Christ but who has striven to lead a good life) illustrates this: many Protestants would say that this man would go to Hell because he didn't know about Christ, while Catholics would say that a person who strives to do good is (insofar as that goodness) a member of the Church because all good things are of Christ and that therefore it is possible for this person to be with Christ after death.
Show me the verse in Scripture that says that Scripture is the sole authority on such matters.
All points very well taken and informative. You have persuaded me that the case may be more substantial than I thought. Now it's time to sit back and wait and let the doctors and the postulator do their work.
Thank you.
Dear Dionysiusdecordealcis,
"All points very well taken and informative."
Thanks!
"Now it's time to sit back and wait and let the doctors and the postulator do their work."
I agree.
sitetest
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