Posted on 03/11/2006 5:52:57 PM PST by sionnsar
Fr Chad Hatfield, a convert to Orthodoxy from The Episcopal Church several years ago, writes on “Anglican Options: Rome or Orthodoxy? “.
I found this a thought-provoking comment, regarding the doctrinal and liturgical heterodoxy of some Catholic parishes and individual Catholics (especially priests and religious) and the apparent lack of such heterodoxy in Orthodox Churches, at least on any sort of large scale:
It’s possible there are some goofy Orthodox parishes. But I have never found one. Coming from Catholicism I would have to say that your odds of finding an orthodox (small ‘o’) parish will vary from diocese to diocese. I have stumbled on more than my share of radical liberalism in the Catholic Church. I have of course also found very conservative and good parishes. But in some diocese they are the minority. Thats not the case in Orthodoxy
The same arguments could have been said, reversing the Western Church with the Eastern Church and vice versus, when relating the first 1000 years of Christianity, especially during the time of Arianism, Nestorianism, and Monophysitism. The East was seen as the fickle brother who moved and flowed with the tide of culture and the emperor-in-power’s flavor. We in the West have undergone massive cultural changes in the last 50 years. It is not surprising that the Western branch of Apostolic Christianity is trying to get a feel for itself. There are many churches that seem liberal, others more orthodox. We are a sign of our times and culture, just as the Eastern churches of Constantinople were in the first millenium.
I don’t see this as one half being better than the other. Just as men, our churches face our own respective hurdles in coming to Christ. Just as men, during different points of our lives, we struggle, and at other times, we are at peace. We in the West are undergoing our “Dark Night of the Soul”, a time of purging - just as churches in the East have faced the same actions, brought on by a loving God.
I have to admit that, as a Western “reformed catholic” Christian (yes, I know the objections that term triggers), my liturgical and ecclesiastical-cultural biases lie with Rome. Duly acknowledging the glories of the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom, I nevertheless find myself considerably more at home in the familiarity of text and rhythm in the Sarum Use of the old Latin Rite, the Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo Missae (allowing that its English translation was done by tin-eared scholars). Beautiful as the various choral settings of the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom and other Eastern liturgies may be, I have been formed by Western church music: medieval plainsong, the polyphony of Palestrina and Bach and Handel, the organ music of Pachelbel and Messiaen (and again, Bach pere), and the hymn tunes of the Reformation, the French diocesan music movement of the 17th and 18th centuries, and the 18th century Methodist revival. And while I believe that the filioque should be removed from the Creed and in general agree with the Orthodox view on the intermediate state and on original sin, my theological (indeed, my intellectual) formation has been in the rigorous, debate-oriented theological milieu of Western Catholicism, developed in the 12th and 13th century and carried on, both by Rome and (to varying degrees) the Churches of the Reformation.
Then again, there is always Western Rite Orthodoxy, which has been assured of permanent status by His Eminence Metropolitan Philip, Primate of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America.
But do they have organs, and can they sing “All hail the power of Jesus’ Name”, “Come ye faithful, raise the strain”, and Pange lingua?
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. It’s possible there are some goofy Orthodox parishes. But I have never found one. Coming from Catholicism I would have to say that your odds of finding an orthodox (small ‘o’) parish will vary from diocese to diocese. I have stumbled on more than my share of radical liberalism in the Catholic Church. I have of course also found very conservative and good parishes. But in some diocese they are the minority. Thats not the case in Orthodoxy
There are plenty of heretics and heterdox among the culturally Orthodox, and it is hard to find prominent examples (paging Gov. Dukakis! Gov. Blagjegovich!). Given the political proclivities of ethnic Greeks and Serbs and the like in the US, they may even be a majority ethnically. The difference with the Catholic Church is that these people are honest enough with themselves to leave off the practice of a faith in which they no longer believe, rather than attempting in their hubris to "change" the Orthodox Church from within. The Catholic Church is unfortunately cursed with tens of thousands of heretics who refuse to leave the Church for places more in tune with their beliefs, such as Epicopalianism, Unititarianism, Wicca, or the Church of Satan (from the latter is there a difference from the previous three?).
I am Orthodox because I believe in the theology of the church.
Memo to + Philip if he teams up with the OCA:
Do not surrender your ATM card!
At least within the Anglican world, the FR Religion forum has acquired some level of prominence. A number of Anglican bloggers whose writings regularly appear here have become FReepers themselves.
Well, then, good job to you.
Doing what I can! I've seen the FR Religion forum become the launching point for a number of ecumenical discussions.
I was honored to know Bishop (now Archbishop) Job in the "old days" in New England, not as one of his flock, but as a RC neighbor of one of the parishes he visited regularly.
Of course, Christ himself, the Bridegroom, will always protect his Bride, holy Church, but as long as the OCA has hierarchs like Archbishop Job, then that Church is in trustworthy/worthy hands here on earth as well.
I could not speak highly enough about that wonderful Bishop.
The governor is a Roman Catholic and a Croatian, from what my frinds in Illinois tell me.
Serbian-Orthodox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1386057/posts
Bravo S!
Your friends in Illinois have been drinking a whole lot of that river in Egypt. You know, DE-NILE.
He is the second Serbian American to be elected governor of any state of the United States (George Voinovich from Ohio was the first).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_BlagojevichRod Blagojevich - Illinois Governor (D) (Serbian Orthodox)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eastern_Orthodox_Christians
BTW, here are some other "winners" in the Orthodox or ex-Orthodox camp:
Paul Sarbanes - US Senator (D-MD), Olympia Snowe - US Senator (R-ME), Paul Tsongas - Late US Senator and Presidential candidate (D-MA)
Do you think the "Catholic" (cino) colleges have a lot to do with that too? Seems like the liberal elitists cling to colleges and infect and spread dissent to the next generation.
Since the Orthodox don't have much of a higher education system here, they are spared those leeches. (At least in the US.) But I will bet they have that problem in the old countries.
It is a word for autonomy (being the English translation). For some reason our Partiarch insisted on the English translation in the new name of the Archdiocese (after he and the Holy Synod of Antioch insisted, over the objection of our Metropolitan, on fleshing out the requested change in status to what is recognizably full autonomy).
Probably not much of a problem in the old country, except possibly for Greece, and maybe the Patriachates of Antioch and Alexandria. Everywhere else, communism served as a strong innoculation against all the rot of modernity.
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