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To: gscc
The difference being obvious that Scripture tells me to examine the Scriptures every day to see if what is taught is true. You defer to your church. Jesus warned the Pharisees of abrogating the Word of God through their own traditions - to avoid these teachings it is apparent He would have us examine their teachings against Scripture. It seems therefore if a church promulgates dogma that does not conform to Scripture I am commanded to examine it against the Word of God. The Bereans examined Paul's teaching against the Scriptures that God had entrusted the Jewish people with. Yet you take just the opposite approach. You would take the teachings of the Pharisees and blindly follow them even if they circumvent or abrogate the Law of God..

Acts 17:10-12

10As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.


See, here we go again. As is the habit of so many people (who were undoubtedly taught incorrectly), you pull a scripture out of context and then make it the source of your dogma.

To understand what St. Luke was relating, you must understand the context. A re-reading of the account of Paul in Thessalonica is important to understand what is being talked about when he fled that city and went to Boerea. Some of the Thessalonian Jews, when Paul preached in their synagogue that Jesus was the fulfillment of OT prophecy, didn't check to see if he was giving them good information; instead, they got angry and got a crowd together, went to Jason's house, and wanted to do something (it doesn't say what) to Paul. The Boereans, instead, checked through the OT prophecies for themselves. Frankly, there are a couple of folks on this thread who have acted like the Thessalonian rabble rousers, when those of us who are members of the apostolic churches have tried to explain, using scripture, our beliefs. Rather than checking for themselves, they instantly go on the attack.

Does the scripture, when you read the WHOLE context of Acts 17, state that they proofed each and every word out of Paul's mouth? No it doesn't. The context for this assertion starts in Acts 17:2

Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures,

Act 17:3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ."

The Boereans checked the scriptures (the OT prophecies) to validate what Paul was saying about Jesus being the Messiah. And that example is exactly what you should be doing: I've made a number of assertions, either directly quoting scripture or giving reference to it. You should check what I've asserted to see if I accurately quoted those scriptures! And if I haven't, then you should call me on it.


One thing that I just don't think you are grasping is that Sacred Tradition cannot be at odds with Sacred Scripture. There is no member of the apostolic churches who would ever assert that this was the case. I've shown you already where the apostle exhorted us to pay heed to what he taught, whether in writing or orally. My exhortation to you is to actually look at Tradition, to actually pull up dogmatic works, and to check them. All Modern doctrinal works put out, at least by the Vatican (I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other for the other patriarchies), are extensively cross-referenced. Follow the footnotes. They will, at some point, lead you back to scripture. If you find something that you believe IS offensive to scripture, make sure you understand what it is you're criticizing...then lay it out...

I don't go to Catholic sources to provide specific criticism about Protestants. I will either go to the Protestant source or go to the Scriptures. I would encourage you to do the same: don't go to some Protestant Ian Paisley-type source to criticize Catholic doctrine: check it out for yourself!

FWIW...and YMMV...

946 posted on 02/18/2006 2:27:12 PM PST by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: markomalley
I don't go to Catholic sources to provide specific criticism about Protestants. I will either go to the Protestant source or go to the Scriptures. I would encourage you to do the same: don't go to some Protestant Ian Paisley-type source to criticize Catholic doctrine: check it out for yourself!

Sorry to disappoint you, like the Boreans I go to Scripture as the source to criticize false teachings.  When scripture tells me: "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5)  I am then able to see that a doctrine that promulgates Mary and saints as intercessors as a false teaching.

I am also able to discern not to call a religious teacher "Father" or "Holy" for there is no one but God that deserves this honor.  I can see doctrine promulgated that permits the ordination of women or homosexuals and can discern from scripture that this wrong.  I can see someone praying before an  image and I can clearly discern because I "examined the Scriptures" every day that this is wrong.

See, here we go again. As is the habit of so many people (who were undoubtedly taught incorrectly), you pull a scripture out of context and then make it the source of your dogma.

When discussing taking scripture out of context your church has built a house of cards on the poor exegesis of Matthew 16:18

949 posted on 02/18/2006 3:44:45 PM PST by gscc
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