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To: Conservative til I die; Full Court
(Full Court) "That's a popular Catholic teaching isn't? "The Bible doesn't means what it says. The Bible can't be trusted, don't read it by yourself.""

Quotation marks mean something. It means you are quoting someone or something. Would you care to provide a citation for this quote?

Until then, I will assume you are intentionally propogating falsehoods (i.e., lies).


You are correct in that Full Court used quotation marks inappropriately, however, I think it is a stretch to claim he/she is "...intentionally propogating falsehoods (i.e., lies)."

Maybe it would be better if Full Court identified such statements as paraphrase.

I believe the Catholic Catechism makes it prety clear that Scripture is not sufficient in and of itself.

95 "It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls."

1,679 posted on 02/25/2006 11:48:55 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: OLD REGGIE; Conservative til I die; wmfights; Full Court
Thank you for quoting the Catechism, OLD REGGIE.

The two claims here are not equivalent. On the one hand, we have someone floating three ideas:

1) The Bible doesn't mean what it says.
2) The Bible is not Trustworthy
3) Don't read the Bible yourself.

Furthermore this person insinuated that those false beliefs are a "popular Catholic teaching." This is of course false.

Now the quote from the Catechism which you referenced, (and quite rightly so, it's entirely germane to the subject at hand,) states that Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magesterium work hand in hand for the Salvation of souls, and none of these three can stand alone. This means, among other things, that the Church cannot stand apart from the Scriptures.

The Catholic Church (Roman and Orthodox Catholicism) Canonized the Bible under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit. To claim that the same Church teaches the Scriptures are untrustworthy is a contradiction in terms. (And I understand that you are not making that claim, by the way, I'm referring to comments by other participants in this conversation.)
1,685 posted on 02/25/2006 12:04:16 PM PST by InterestedQuestioner (Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.)
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To: OLD REGGIE; Full Court; InterestedQuestioner; SoothingDave; Cronos; annalex; ...

Timothy 3:14-16
New International Version (NIV)

14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He[a] appeared in a body,[b]
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.


1,688 posted on 02/25/2006 12:12:03 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: OLD REGGIE
(Full Court) "That's a popular Catholic teaching isn't? "The Bible doesn't means what it says. The Bible can't be trusted, don't read it by yourself.""

Quotation marks mean something. It means you are quoting someone or something. Would you care to provide a citation for this quote?

Until then, I will assume you are intentionally propogating falsehoods (i.e., lies).

You are correct in that Full Court used quotation marks inappropriately, however, I think it is a stretch to claim he/she is "...intentionally propogating falsehoods (i.e., lies)."

I stand by my assumption. You do not prove an argument by fabricating quotes. It's dishonest. This is aside from other claims she has made that are questionable. Because I do not think her to be ignorant, I have to wonder about her motives.

As to your quote from the Catechism, there is nothing there that indicates the Church thinks the Bible "doesn't mean what it says" or that it "can't be trusted." There is quite a difference between something being "profitable" yet not "sufficient" and saying it's somehow untrue and not trustworthy. A world's difference.

But yes, you are correct. We do not believe the Bible alone to be sufficient. Quite important? Yes. Inspired by God? Definitely. Extremely profitable to our faith? Of course!

But we're not ashamed to say that using the Bible alone for salvation is insufficient.
1,689 posted on 02/25/2006 12:18:14 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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