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To: Full Court; NYer
1 Corinthians 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

You are quite skilful at selectively snipping bits of scripture out of context. Read the whole chapter.

First off, you avoid quoting the very next verse where Paul says “But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.” He nowhere states it is a sin to not come together. That is your assumption.

Next, the limit “for a time” is not defined. Is it weeks, months, years? We know that Mary and Joseph did not come together for at least 9-months because of the virgin birth. Did that break Paul’s “concession”? I doubt it, because the key phrase of the verse is come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency (or self-control per other translations). We know that Mary and Joseph stayed apart for at least 9-months, so we know they had self-control. It is quite possible they maintained self-control after His birth. Scripture doesn’t say one way or the other.

In any case to say Mary and Joseph would sin by violating Paul’s concession is absolutely wrong and figment of your imagination.

1,605 posted on 02/24/2006 11:45:16 AM PST by Titanites (Happy are those who are called to His supper.)
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To: Titanites

The absolute commandment is to be fruitful, which Joseph and Mary were in the most glorious fashion in bringing us the Savior. In many instances the Church allows for complete abstinence in marriage, when the fruit of the marriage is either already present or impossible. That is called Josephine marriage and is perfectly valid. An example would be a couple wishing to join monastic orders.

The commandment of submission to the husband remains valid, of course, but Mary would have violated it only if Joseph had asked her physical affection, of which we have no record.

In any event, the uniquely exceptional nature of the Holy Family renders all attempts to find a legalistic fault in them stupid and vaguely blasphemous.


1,606 posted on 02/24/2006 12:04:50 PM PST by annalex
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To: Titanites; Full Court; NYer; Cronos
"First off, you avoid quoting the very next verse where Paul says “But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.” ..."

It is refreshing that you recognize Paul frequently speaks for himself and himself only. Please advise some of your compatriots that I am not a bitter "ex" or anything like that when I say that not all of Paul's writings are "Commandments of God".
1,611 posted on 02/24/2006 1:13:50 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: Titanites
First off, you avoid quoting the very next verse where Paul says “But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.”

The Bible says that Paul says that WITH PERMISSION.

Because Paul wrote it does it make it any less valid?

Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness...

Also, Paul adds that he wishes all men were as he, celibate, but he knows this can not be the case for most.

1 Corinthians 7:5  Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

7  For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

Married couples were only to come apart for a season. And he mentions a time of fasting and prayer.

No one except Jesus fasted longer than 40 days, so I expect that Mary and Joseph, if they abstained, it would never of been longer than 40 days.

The Bible says Joseph knew her in the sexual sense, and that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

deal.

1,621 posted on 02/24/2006 2:11:56 PM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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