Replies

"Thank you ... I am over the water right now so my connection is via satellite."

Over the water in a boat, or in a plane? I'm picturing you in some sort of James bond set-up.

" Out of 1700+ Canon Code, why the absence of code with certainty, as to which 10 was decided on?"

Well, the Decalogue is the Decalogue, it's Exodus 20: 6-17, and Deuteronomy 5: 6-22. That can't be changed. There are actually something like 14 imperative statements, combined with a lot of information that might be considered extraneous from a modern day perspective (references on how to treat your slave on the Sabbath, references to not desiring your neighbors donkey or oxen, etc.) The question is, how can those 14 imperative statements be best summarized in a 10 Commandment format? Western Catholics choose one list, Eastern Catholics tend to choose another, and Jews choose still a third. All are good summaries, and IMHO, capture the central points of the Decalogue.

"Exactly.... this also applies to the 9th and 10th Commandments of the right column I posted. Why not leave those 2 grouped together as depicted on the left column?"

Well, there are good arguments for either position. Some feel that worshiping a false God and making an idol are the same thing, and so can be summarized together. Others feel that coveting goods and desiring your neighbors wife are essentially summarizing earlier commandments (against theft and adultery,) and pointing that it is not merely external actions, but the state of one's heart that matters. These people feel it's fine to combine these two imperative statements. The view against this is that it speaks specifically to a neighbors wife and property, (echoing the prohibition on theft and adultery,) but does not address the other previous Commandments. Others might object that a spouse is not the same as property.

"would that raise the possibility of some future alteration in the 10 choices?"

No one can alter the actual Decalogue, it's Scriptural. With regards to the division and summary of the ten Commandments from the 14 imperative statements in the Decalogue, it's simply a teaching tool. Christ and His Apostles themselves summarized the Decalogue in different fashions, and there is nothing binding on us Catholics to accept one version over another. It's the Scripture that is inspired, not the summaries of that Scripture.

Our Catechism works from a particular summary of the 10 Commandments, but it quotes and cites the underlying Scripture that makes up the actual and entire Decalogue. When you study the Ten Commandments within the Catholic Church, you are going to be pointed to the actual Decalogue in Scripture.

"Finally, and I know this may seem a silly question to some... How did we get from 10 Commandments to over 1700 Canon codes of Law?'

That's not a silly question at all, Clay+Iron_Times.

"For my part it would take an in-depth study on the bibliography of Canon Law. I would not want to expend the time which would take me away from my focus on God. I would rather stay in the scriptures themselves."

I'm right with you, Clay+Iron_Times. That makes good sense. I've never seen the Code of Canon Law, and I don't know of any Catholics who actually have looked at the Code of Canon Law , outside of people here on FR and, presumably, priests. Your motion to focus on Scripture is an excellent one.

As for the origin of Canon Law, when you have a Church of 1.3 Billion people from every culture and nation on earth, you have to have some set of rules that people can turn to for a set of standards. The Code of Canon Law is not an explanation of Scripture, it's a technical manual that sets a written standard for how the Church operates. It answers questions such as, "Who can be married?" and "What are the proper procedures for disciplining Clergy? The entire point of the Code of Canon Law is to ensure justice in a large, diverse, and complex human organization. It's the answer to "How does one Love thy neighbor as oneself?" when the neighbors are a bishop and a priest who is accused of teaching heresy, or the neighbors are a woman who has just married a man who turns out to be a practicing homosexual, and she wants to know if she is in a valid marriage or just a sham.

It's also the source that the old Norwegian guy who always sits in the back of the Church can turn to if he feels the young priest is not celebrating the mass correctly.

For the most part, the Code of Canon Law is not something to guide your daily walk with Christ. It's a collection of Ecclesiastical laws for the governing of the Church. Most Catholics will never even see, much less read the Code of Canon Law. Basically, Clay+Iron_Times, you don't need the Code of Canon Law unless you get into a dispute with another Catholic relating to Church governance, or you somehow find yourself in a serious pickle vis a vis Church policy. It's not analogous to the Decalogue, it's more analogous to the Book of Leviticus, in that it contains a detailed collections of rules.

As for the origin of Canon Law, when you have a Church of 1.3 Billion people from every culture and nation on earth, you have to have some set of rules that people can turn to for a set of standards. The Code of Canon Law is not an explanation of Scripture, it's a technical manual that sets a written standard for how the Church operates. It answers questions such as, "Who can be married?" and "What are the proper procedures for disciplining Clergy? The entire point of the Code of Canon Law is to ensure justice in a large, diverse, and complex human organization. It's the answer to "How does one Love thy neighbor as oneself?" when the neighbors are a bishop and a priest who is accused of teaching heresy, or the neighbors are a woman who has just married a man who turns out to be a practicing homosexual, and she wants to know if she is in a valid marriage or just a sham.

There was some hubbub a few weeks back about Michael Schiavo getting married again in the Church and how this should not have happened since it violates Canon.

When you stick around for a few millennia, just about every possible situation has come up and been decided before.

Yes, it is a violation of Canon to arrange for the demise of your spouse so that you are then "free" to marry your girlfriend.

To those who are basically ecclesial anarchists, this is dismissed with the "legalistic!" charge. To the rest of us, it seems wise to have a collection of the decisions and wisdom of the Church through the ages.

Over the water in a boat, or in a plane? I'm picturing you in some sort of James bond set-up.

An ROV (Remote Observation Vehicle)Vessel in the Gulf of Mexico. The ROV has a 16,000 foot umbilical to dive with, so we can dive that deep. Picture Titanic exploration and thats close to what it is. I provide the acoustic tracking and navigation for both surface positioning(DGPS) and sub-sea acoustic positioning USBL. Most of the work since September of 2005 consisted of the Katrina and Rita damage investigation, been real busy to say the least.

Let me take this opportunity to say I enjoy being on this forum, and I rarely frequent any other subject matter besides religion. This keeps me in the Word of God at the same time allows me to convey what I have learned and to hear others what they have learned. Emotions sometimes can run high as a testament to this thread but I do feel deeply committed conveying The Word of God.

Used to be politics(still conservative), now it's all God

Also I wish to extend top honors to yourself "Interested" concerning your responses as well as to "Jo kus" whom I've had conversations in the past. Not to leave anyone else out, Titanites and others... SoothingDave ...."Soothing"..Dave? I hope that places a smile on his face because I am just kidding...But is he kidding? :))No a little caustic now and then is okay, Im alright with it... I still have to ask the questions or make my point.

My goodness, I haven't even touch on the subject of prophecy yet, I wonder what thats going to be like. Anyway we must give it go sometime, I'd be interested to hear yours and others opinions.

You summarized in your last paragraph pretty good and again I appreciate the effort and also the compliments on previous posts

In this response I figured I would project a personal side. I recognize all or most of the frequent posters here, although I forget sometimes how they respond..not to others..to me.

Question.. When any of you are about to logon...do you get a certain height of anxiety and anticipation built up.. Oh no.. I've got a new post! Sometimes I just relax and read the subject matter with no interaction. Other times I cannot let it go, I must post and wait for those red letters to come up. :-)

God Bless yall