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To: Full Court
God says you can know you are saved, He can give you that peace.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

OK. Let's take a look at this verse. You seem to use this as proof that you are "saved" now and forever. That this verse was written so that all who may read it will have assurance of salvation.

But that isn't what it says. John says he wrote "these things" so that we may know. Wouldn't it be wise to look at what else he wrote in his letter, rather than just taking this one verse out of context?

All following verses from 1 John.

1 john 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So we must not merely say (or profess) faith, we must avoid walking in darkness (that is, actively living sinful lives), or else our profession is a lie. Clearly there is more to it than just reading one verse and therefore presuming salvation.

2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

He implores us here again to avoid sin. This is one of the things written, we should pay it heed. No mere vocalization of a faith is enough to assure us forever of salvation.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We must abide the commandments (love God and love one another) in order to truly be in him. This is an ongoing thing, not one day deciding we want to be "saved."

Note also he that says he abides in God "ought himself also to walk." Had salvation been a given, John would have said that such a person will automatically, as a matter of course, walk as Jesus walked. Not that they "ought" to , lest their profession of faith be a lie.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Abide in him. John writes as if we have a choice to abide or not, to walk in the darkness or not. He implores us over and over to stay the course. Very odd for a man who (presumably) wrote 5:13 so we could easily know we were saved forever.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

In order to be "born of him" one must "doeth righteousness." Not just "accept Jesus" one day.

3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Because we keep his commandments and do pleasing things. Not because of a profession of faith.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So much for salvation by "faith alone." We must believe on His Name and love one another.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Again, keeping his commandments is linked to dwelling in him.

4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Again, if we love one another, God dwells in us.

So, still wish to use 5:13 as some sort of proof text of easy knowledge of eternal salvation?

SD

1,348 posted on 02/22/2006 11:12:27 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave; Full Court
4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

And your proof text proves that Jesus wasn't God???????
1,351 posted on 02/22/2006 11:47:42 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: SoothingDave
So, still wish to use 5:13 as some sort of proof text of easy knowledge of eternal salvation?

Yes, absolutely. Because God says that we may know. It isn't "you might be able to know."

Hebrews 10:7  ¶Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8  Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9  Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11  And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12  But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13  From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15  Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

1,659 posted on 02/25/2006 9:26:03 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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