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To: Jaded

"There's also purgatory. While not mentioned by name, it is similar to the OT Sheol. The threshing floor, the refiners fire that Paul talks about.

Ephesians and James both talk about the fact that we are made for works because of God, that is obedience."
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Yours is such a "works" based faith. You can be saved, but you can lose that salvation if you don't do the "works" that your church dictates and you still go to purgatory to work off sin after you die.

My readings of SCRIPTURE differ in that once the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in you the HOLY SPIRIT will not abandon you. The works you do after your saved are from a desire to please our LORD JESUS CHRIST, not because they buy you anything.

IMHO, our LORD JESUS CHRIST did not come to sacrifice himself for us to then make it so complicated that a sinner couldn't have the blessed assurance of KNOWING that they are one of the elect and are held in his hand no matter what. Your "works" based salvation leaves you NEVER KNOWING for sure if you are saved or not. Due to this I pray for you that you may come to know the PEACE of being with the LORD ALWAYS, no matter what mistakes you make.


1,259 posted on 02/21/2006 8:12:35 PM PST by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way!)
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To: wmfights

I don't buy the "once saved always saved". I've known some incredibly hateful "Born Again Christians". They say that the Bible gives them license to hate and carve out the snippets of verse to support them.

I have a friend who does alot with the Right To Life organizations. She said that while they were praying across the street from the main abortion mill in Houston a woman brought in her teenage daughter for an abortion. The mother came back out to scream at the protesters that she was saved and God has already forgiven her for getting her daughter's abortion.

Recently a Southern Baptist friend told me that if you lost your salvation by walking away or backsliding that you could never get it back. That I don't believe either.

And yes, I know people who claim to be Catholic but you couldn't tell it.


1,271 posted on 02/21/2006 8:26:05 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: wmfights
Yours is such a "works" based faith. You can be saved, but you can lose that salvation if you don't do the "works" that your church dictates and you still go to purgatory to work off sin after you die.

IMHO, our LORD JESUS CHRIST did not come to sacrifice himself for us to then make it so complicated that a sinner couldn't have the blessed assurance of KNOWING that they are one of the elect and are held in his hand no matter what.

MT 19:16-29
16 Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?"
17 He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18 He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, " 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness;
19 honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
20 The young man said to him, "All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to (the) poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and said, "Who then can be saved?"
26 Jesus looked at them and said, "For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."
27 Then Peter said to him in reply, "We have given up everything and followed you. What will there be for us?"
28 Jesus said to them, "Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life.

Jesus sure seemed to disagree about faith alone vs. faith/works. Obey the commandments, lose your love of wealth, give charitably to the poor, follow Jesus, build up treasure in Heaven. Jesus makes a pretty interesting illustration about rewarding those who have given up family for His sake "a hundred times more".

You might also take heed of the last verse of this chapter in your presumptiveness: "But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first."
1,273 posted on 02/21/2006 8:36:31 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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