Where Have All the Protestants Gone?

NOR ^ | January 2006 | Thomas Storck

[Cronos]

now you've gone and confused them -- they were all against what they thought (and were taught) was the eeveil Roman Catholic Church and now they find that the Latin rite is but one of the Catholic Churchs and the others have their own patriarchs and church organisation. What will the anti-Catholic brainwashed ones do now?

[Cronos]

some have really led to making each man his own super-pope -- completely infallible on everything. So many evangelicals I've known keep using the term "I will wipe the dust off my feet" ad-nauseum

[tenn2005]

No, but I wouldn't believe that he was not capable of error either. He was human, wasn't he?

[Cronos]

yes -- just as we both (incorrectly) accused the Monophysites of being, well, Monophysites and being heretical. Language CAN be very tricky, eh!! Especially when one uses words like hypotheosis etc. :)

[tenn2005]

Islam is in now way or manner Christian.

[tenn2005]

I believe that it is the Catholic church that has said, "Give me a child until he is 6 and he will be a catholic forever." Would this come under your heading of brainwashing chldren?

[tenn2005]

So the Pope's knowledge and authority depend on where he is sitting?

[Cronos]

II: I don't see many Catholics blowing the dust of the Bible checking to see if something the Pope said jives with the writings.

JK: Because we know that it does. We don't have to second-guess the Holy Spirit working through the Pope, unlike our brothers who rely on their own intellect to decide for themselves what is Christian beliefs, not knowing for sure if their interpretation is God's meaning.

Well, actually, the Catholic Church encourages us to read and to question and to read the questions that have been asked before and the thoughts of the various Church fathers on things.  Say, you wonder why we believe in the Trinity (it's not directly visible in the scriptures) and you do not read the early Church ponderings on this, you could then become a Unitarian.

I've read up on the Bible and some Church fathers -- many debating points here and there and guess what -- the Church is right on the matters.  Why is it right?  Because God leads His Church.  Yes, individuals can make mistakes -- if God explains to me His entire majesty, I would NOT be able to comprehend all of it -- thanks to God I may understand a teensy-weensy bit.  Take that as the "bible only" groups comprehension.  But God's teaching THROUGH HIS SON and through the thousands of souls in The Church is that much infallible.

Individual interpretation, even those inspired by the Holy Spirit can help us only so far -- due to our own (and not God's) limitations.  He could control us and use us just a megaphones with us not comprehending anything but He doesn't -- for some reason, He respects His creation -- I don't know why, but He does.

[Cronos]

The fact of the matter is that the Bible is so straigntforward and understandable that to misunderstand it you must have the help of a Priest, Rabbi, or Preacher."

REally, then what was YOUR interpretation about Christ's "brothers and sisters" and why do you believe in the Trinity? And didn't the ECUMENICAL COUNCILS determine what was in the Bible (before the Protestants gen 1 removed the Apocryphea)?

[Cronos]

Because they listen to and follow the teachings of Priest, Rabbis and Preachers rather than studying the Bible for themselves.

And those Priests, Rabbis, Preachers etc. aren't inspired, so the founders of the Baptist, Methodist etc. movements were wrong, eh?

[tenn2005]

Perhaps there is a message there for you that you are missing.

[Cronos]

agreed -- but you said that the Apostolic Church does not consist of Both the Catholic and Orthodox churchs. That was a wrong statement. While we may be heterodox to each other, we still acknowledge each other's distinction as Apostolic Churchs.

[kosta50]

By that definition, perhaps some aspects of the EO churches would be heterodox to us RCs

Actually, in schism. But, what most people don't understand is that the RCC does not see the Orthodox laity as schismatic; but only their Bishops. I would say the EOC treates the RC laity the same way. Schism between the East and the West is a profoundly ecclasiatical one, mixed with theology derived from different eclassiatiocal traditions.

For an Ecumenical Council to take place, it is absolutely necessary to reconcile the role of papal jurisdiction first (so that the Bishop of Rome can actually call for such a Synod). And, as was always the case, such Councils were convened when there were theological disputes. So, this VIII one would be no different.

[tenn2005]

No they weren't inspired and neither is the Pope. And yes, they could have been wrong just as the Pope could be.

[tenn2005]

Christ brothers and sisters were his half brothers and sisters. Is that hard for you to understand. The trinity can be established in several ways but I like the scene of all three members of the Godhead being present at the Baptism of Jesus. As to Ecumenical councils, they are an invention of the Catholic church with no basis in scripture. Don't point me to the council at Jerusalem concerning circumcission. That was attended by apostles (Plural). Thought totally in error, the catholic church claims only one successor to the apostles, the Pope and he was not present at ano of the Councils decididing on the contents of the Bible. Incidently the seven extra books contained in the Catholic Bible were not there until placed there by the Catholic Church in 1521.

[Cronos]

No, but I wouldn't believe that he was not capable of error either. He was human, wasn't he?

So were the mortal authors of Scripture. They wrote down God's word. While the Word will never be wrong, would you then doubt the words of these human authors?

[Cronos]

Islam is in no way or manner Christian

Aha, again, you show a lack of knowledge -- Islam borrows and corrupts a number of details from Judaism and Christianity -- for instance, the recent Id-ul-fitr commemorates the time when, according to the Koran, Abraham was about to sacrifice his sone Ishmael to God and was stopped by God and sacrified a goat instead. Sound familiar?

Or, how about the tale about how Mohammed fell asleep near Jerusalem (supposedly) and dreamt of a ladder to heaven.

Or, the Koranic tale about the Birth of Christ -- Mo says that Christ was born in the desert and Mary was alone. Sounds like he mixed up revelations and the Gospels.

Isslam is a mix of the Arian heresy, Gnostic ideas, Judaic ideas, Zoroastrian ideas and pre-Isllamic arab pagan ideas.

[tenn2005]

Based on their distortion of scripture it appears to me that they are much closer to the Catholic church than to the Christian church.

[Cronos]

So the Pope's knowledge and authority depend on where he is sitting?

Again, your knee-jerk tendency is preventing you from seeing or hearing anything. Do you understand WHY there was the need for the clause -- in case of ecumenical disputes with no possible sign of an agreement, the Pope is expected to be the person through whom the Holy Spirit guides The Church to reach a decision. So, the Church mandates that the Pope becomes the instrument of God and ONLY IN THOSE RESTRICTED CASES. It curtails this to prevent any human frailities -- the Pope does make an infallible statement when not ex cathedra and is not considered infallible on things like -- who will win the next super bowl...

[tenn2005]

No, they were inspired. Theologians including Catholic theologians and the Pope are not.