Where Have All the Protestants Gone?

NOR ^ | January 2006 | Thomas Storck

[NYer]

Has anyone noticed the almost complete disappearance of Protestants from our nation? "What!" I can hear my readers exclaim, "Storck has really gone off his rocker this time. Why, just down the street there's an Assembly of God church and two or three Baptist churches and the Methodists and so on. My cousin just left the Catholic Church to become a Protestant and my niece just married one. Moreover, evangelical Protestants have many media outlets of their own and they have great influence in the Bush Administration. They're everywhere." All this, of course, is true. Except that for some time, they no longer call themselves Protestants, but simply Christians, and increasingly they've gotten Catholics to go along with their terminology.

I recall over 10 years ago when I was a lector at Mass, for the prayer of the faithful I was supposed to read a petition that began, "That Catholics and Christians…." Of course, I inserted the word "other" before "Christians," but I doubt very many in the congregation would even have noticed had I not done so. Just the other day I saw on a Catholic website an article about a Protestant adoption agency that refused to place children with Catholic parents. The headline referred not to a Protestant adoption agency but to a Christian one. And how often do we hear of Christian bookstores or Christian radio stations or Christian schools, when everyone should know they are Protestant ones?

Now, what is wrong with this? Well, it should be obvious to any Catholic -- but probably isn't. Are only Protestants Christians? Are we Catholics not Christians, indeed the true Christians? About 30 years ago, Protestants, especially evangelicals, began to drop the term Protestant and call themselves simply Christians as a not too subtle means of suggesting that they are the true and real Christians, rather than simply the children of the breakaway Protestant revolt of the 16th century. This shift in Protestant self-identification has taken on increasingly dramatic proportions. A recent Newsweek survey (Aug. 29-Sept. 5, 2005) found that, between 1990 and 2001, the number of Americans who consider themselves "Christian" (no denomination) increased by 1,120 percent, while the number of those who self-identify as "Protestant" decreased by 270 percent.

But perhaps I am getting too worked up over a small matter. After all, are not Protestants also Christians? Yes, I do not deny that. But usually we call something by its most specific name.

Protestants are theists too, but it would surely sound odd if we were to refer to their radio stations and bookstores as theistic radio stations and theistic bookstores. Language, in order to be useful, must convey human thought and concepts in as exact a way as it can. And, in turn, our thoughts and concepts should reflect reality. As Josef Pieper noted, "if the word becomes corrupted, human existence will not remain unaffected and untainted."

Moreover, words often convey more than simple concepts. A certain word may seem only to portray reality, but in fact it does more. It adds a certain overtone and connotation. Thus, it is not a small matter whether we speak of "gays" or of homosexuals. The former term was chosen specifically to inculcate acceptance of an unnatural and immoral way of life. When I was an Episcopalian, I was careful never to speak of the Catholic Church, but of the Roman Catholic Church, as a means of limiting the universality of her claims. I always called Episcopal ministers priests, again as a means of affirming that such men really were priests, in opposition to Leo XIII's definitive judgment that Anglican orders are invalid and thus that they are in no sense priests. Perhaps because of these early experiences, I am very aware of the uses of language to prejudge and control arguments, and I am equally careful now never to call Episcopal ministers priests or refer to one as Father So-and-So. And I think we should likewise not go along with the evangelical Protestant attempt to usurp the name Christian for themselves. They are Protestants, and public discourse should not be allowed to obscure that fact.

Apparently, though, it is the case that some Protestants call themselves Christians, not out of a desire to usurp the term, but out of an immense ignorance of history. That is, they ignore history to such an extent that they really don't understand that they are Protestants. Knowing or caring little about what came before them, they act as if their nicely bound Bibles had fallen directly from Heaven and anyone could simply become a Christian with no reference to past history, ecclesiology, or theology. The period of time between the conclusion of the New Testament book of Acts and the moment that they themselves "accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior" means nothing. Even Luther or Calvin or John Wesley mean little to them, since they can pick up their Bibles and start Christianity over again any time they want. These souls may call themselves simply Christians in good faith, but they are largely ignorant of everything about Church history. They do not understand that Jesus Christ founded a Church, and that He wishes His followers to join themselves to that Church at the same time as they join themselves to Him. In fact, one implies and involves the other, since in Baptism we are incorporated in Christ and made members of His Church at the same time.

So let us not go along with the widespread practice of calling our separated brethren simply Christians. They are Protestants. Let us begin again to use that term. It is precise. It implies Catholic doctrine in the sense that it suggests that such people are in protest against the Church. Moreover, it forces them to define themselves in terms of, rather than independently of, the One True Church. And if we do resume referring to our separated brethren as Protestants, perhaps a few of them might even be surprised enough to ask us why -- and then, behold, a teachable moment!

[SoothingDave]

You cannot deny that when Israel walk righteously with the Lord we blessed them and when they did not he not only withdrew His favor but punished them.

And Job's friends were sure he had committed some horrible sin since he was afflicted so.

SD

[gscc]

When overwhelmed with sane reasoning, always get obnoxious and pointless.

Any reason you're being an obnoxious wise ass?

What's it like to live in an echo chamber?

Try not to be liars.

What a child you are. You've said this probably 20 times already this weekend. Keep saying it until you're blue in the face. It'll keep you safe in that little bubble you live in but it won't make it anymore true.

Just mindless cut-n-pastes from other cut-n-pasters.

Wow you're arrogant....and blind.

 

[Conservative til I die]

Has the CC become politically correct? They used to say that there is no salvation outside the CC, didn't they?

To give it to you in a nutshell (because a long, dense discussion is beyond my scope of knowledge or time), the Church states that those who have no knowledge of Christ or His Church yet live a life according to God's Natural Law can possibly be saved. It's a doctrine called "Invincible Ignorance."

What it does *NOT* say is that all religions are equal or that all non-Catholics are saved.

[SoothingDave]

Wow. You really impelled him on his own pickard.

SD

[SoothingDave]

What it does *NOT* say is that all religions are equal or that all non-Catholics are saved.

Or all professed Catholics, for that matter.

SD

[Conservative til I die]

Secondly, in able to converse with some knowledge on the subject, I have been studying Catholic teachings for at least 20 years now.

Then why are you still so ignorant about us? take it from me, I've been a Catholic for 28 years and have actually seen how other Catholics have acted, and your descriptions do not seem to match my reality.

[Conservative til I die]

BTW, the official teaching of the Church is quite clear on Scripture: it is the word of God, true every word Then why does the RCC teach evolution if the Bible is true?

The Church does not "teach" evolution. The Church is not a scientific research institute. The Church has said that evolution is not incompatible with the faith, for a variety of reasons, one of which is that the Christian faith's priority is not to promulgate creation theories.

Why is it so hard for you people to read and understand simple English? *Do* you guys need books with pictures?

[Conservative til I die]

"Faith alone" is what is anathema'
Really? Then why did Jesus die if you can do it yourself?

Do you even need other people to debate with? You just jump off on your own tangents --of course only strawmen that you already have an answer for.

Ever think there are more choices than the two you've presented here?

[Conservative til I die]

just curious. do you have a job?

Guess you didn't learn from your banning the last time. You're allegedly a Jew now, so what do you care what us Christians have to say in this debate?

PS -Can't wait to see which religion you skip to next. Jainism maybe?

[Conservative til I die]

You cannot deny that when Israel walk righteously with the Lord we blessed them and when they did not he not only withdrew His favor but punished them.

1) Israel 4000 BC is not America 2006 AD.

2) How do you know that America's prosperity is due to God's blessing?

3) Japan is a prosperous country. It's also 0.7% Christian. Is God blessing Japan? China's economy is turning into quite the juggernaut. It's also an oppressive fascist state. Is God blessing fascism? Much of the world's oil sits underneath terroristic Arab Muslim states. Is God blessing these Muslim states?

4) Who says we're walking righteously with the Lord? We embrace things that would cause the ancient Isrealites' eyeballs to fall out of their heads, even the un-righteous ones.

[AlaninSA]

Mo, you have been proven false along with your church and your Pope.

It appears that the only thing proven (repeatedly) is that you (a)lack information on the Catholic Church beyond the typical Chick-like lies, (b)your only agenda is one of obnoxious and bigoted hatred and (c)Cronos has done an outstanding job of showing you for what little you are.

[Conservative til I die]

Be careful when you call a spade a spade. Protestants and some Catholics will accuse you of being insulting.

[Flavius Josephus]

Vatican II changed all that. But we still claim the "Fullness of the Faith."

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Maybe they should change this to the Christian forum instead of the Religious forum. Would that make ya happy?

[Conservative til I die]

Maybe they should change this to the Christian forum instead of the Religious forum. Would that make ya happy?

Just curious as to why someone who follows Judaism cares what happens on a Christian thread. It's akin to me caring about what happens in a intra-Hindu debate.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Just curious as to why someone who follows Judaism cares what happens on a Christian thread. It's akin to me caring about what happens in a intra-Hindu debate.

Our Scriptures comprise 2/3's of your Bible, The title of this thread was too good to resist and I'm a former Catholic and Protestant. Too bad I'm out of popcorn.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Not to mention I love watching you present yourself as one who's obviously gone to finishing school on a pirate ship. That's half the fun.

[Full Court]

So tell me Dave, how is someone saved?

[Full Court]

I totally agree that Mary and Joseph knew each other in the Biblical sense. They had sex.

[Full Court]

The Church is not in the business of advancing scientific theory, it's in the business of salvation.

The Roman Catholic church advances, supports and teaches evolution, which is at odss with God's Holy Word.