Posted on 02/15/2006 6:22:47 AM PST by NYer
You use the word 'Hate" very loosly. No one that I am aware of "hates" either a Catholic or the Catholic church. We could just as easly, and by some of your post, correctly infer that you hate us and the fact that we refuse to accept the teachings of your church. Let me lay a little information on you that might be useful in opening your eyes toward those of us who simply wear the name "Christian," nothing more and nothing less. There is a man who has been my best friend now for over 50 years. Thats right, I am an old man. We went through high school and the service together. He was Best Man at my wedding and at my side when my children were born. We have sharred in the deaths of each others parents. We have sttod side by side during good times and during bad. My children, though now grown, still refer to him as "uncle." He is, and for over 50 years has been, the closest person to me other than my wife. Guess what; he is and always has been a Catholic. You are much to hasty in making judgements my friend. I deny the validity of the Pope and your religion but that has absolutely nothing to do with you.
ok, bung in Josephus as well -- is his work part of Scripture? If you say no, then would you say that all his historical details are false, JUST BASED ON THAT?
Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.
The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect total accuracy from the Bible.
We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision, they say in The Gift of Scripture.
The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.
Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwins theory of evolution in schools, believing intelligent design to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.
But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this countrys Catholic bishops insist cannot be historical. At most, they say, they may contain historical traces.
The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system.
Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.
In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is Gods word expressed in human language and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.
They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries.
The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.
They go on to condemn [bash]fundamentalism for its intransigent intolerance and to warn of significant dangers involved in a fundamentalist approach.
Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.
Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, His
examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.
Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.
The bishops say: Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.
In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-OConnor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith OBrien, Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, explain its context.
They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.
The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.
A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, Its a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.
That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT
UNTRUE
Genesis ii, 21-22
So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man
Genesis iii, 16
God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.
Matthew xxvii, 25
The words of the crowd: His blood be on us and on our children.
Revelation xix,20
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.
Feel free to apologize on bended knee for saying I was posting something unrtue.
Read it and weep.
Of course not. Rome agrees with the Bishops!!
if Mary didn't have sex with Joseph she sinned big time.
You pray to the dead to ask them to pray for you.
How do you get in touch with the dead? A seance?
The culture of death and the other culture of death (TROP) love it when we fight among ourselves.
Tenn -- if the Catholic Church is Christian heresy based on what you think happened in the 4th century, then the Oriental and Orthodox Churchs are also heresies and so are most of the Protestant Churchs. That means that 99.99 out of 100 Christians, according to you, would be heretics....
BTW, the official teaching of the Church is quite clear on Scripture: it is the word of God, true every word. If there is conflict with what we perceive, it is our understanding, not Scripture that is in error.
From Dei Verbum
Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings (5) for the sake of salvation. Therefore "all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind" (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text).
That would be wrong because many either never accepted the false teachings of the Catholic church or later left the Catholic church and returned to New Testament Christianity.
Tenn2005: Do you mean to tell me that, as a Catholic you need me, a poor dumb and misinformed christian, to guide you to the source of the doctrine which you espouse? Surely you have concrete information to support your beliefs.
Really Tenn --> that's below you, first you make an accusation: the Catholic church began as a Christian heresey? then when asked to prove it you say something really with no proof: The historical writings of the Catholic Church. Then when asked to cite a source, you go on a tangent to cover your bluff. You made an accusation, the onus is on YOU to prove it
Tenn2005: Do you mean to tell me that, as a Catholic you need me, a poor dumb and misinformed christian, to guide you to the source of the doctrine which you espouse? Surely you have concrete information to support your beliefs.
Really Tenn --> that's below you, first you make an accusation: the Catholic church began as a Christian heresey? then when asked to prove it you say something really with no proof: The historical writings of the Catholic Church. Then when asked to cite a source, you go on a tangent to cover your bluff. You made an accusation, the onus is on YOU to prove it
Then you say : "Do you deny the theachings of the Catholic church that I gave you as examples? Do hold them to be true? If that is the case then you need to be showing where in the Bible these teachings come from. I didn't make them up. Your church did. And you need to chill out and take a deep breath."
WHAT examples? You just made baseless accusations and hemmed and hawed when asked for proof. Chill out when someone makes a false accusation? Wouldn't you like us to forget that FALSE accusation, that LIE?
yawn, another canard. Take the Shroud of Turin -- what's the official Catholic Church's view on them? The Church does not claim it to be the Shroud of Christ -- it says it MAY be, but does not take things one way or the other. Ditto for the pieces of the true cross. And you will state it to be official Church doctrine.
Tenn2005: Do you mean to tell me that, as a Catholic you need me, a poor dumb and misinformed christian, to guide you to the source of the doctrine which you espouse? Surely you have concrete information to support your beliefs.
Really Tenn --> that's below you, first you make an accusation: the Catholic church began as a Christian heresey? then when asked to prove it you say something really with no proof: The historical writings of the Catholic Church. Then when asked to cite a source, you go on a tangent to cover your bluff. You made an accusation, the onus is on YOU to prove it
Then you say : "Do you deny the theachings of the Catholic church that I gave you as examples? Do hold them to be true? If that is the case then you need to be showing where in the Bible these teachings come from. I didn't make them up. Your church did. And you need to chill out and take a deep breath."
WHAT examples? You just made baseless accusations and hemmed and hawed when asked for proof. Chill out when someone makes a false accusation? Wouldn't you like us to forget that FALSE accusation, that LIE?
Then, you say: "I did not state that it was part of your church's teaching, I said that it was a fact" --> really? Then, why did you state that it was Church doctrine as above?
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