Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: wmfights

Your position is precarious regarding the canon. SOMEONE had to determine the canon of Scripture. It did NOT fall out of the sky ready-made, with a handy index of the books near the front. If there were no councils to determine the canon, there would NOT be a canon at all, unless God Himself DIRECTLY intervened and told the whole world what that canon should be. He normally doesn't work that way, as there would be no need for faith in Him were such demonstrations of His existence and power were common in every contingency.

You're right when you say that "council's recognition of GOD's WORD did not make it GOD's WORD." The words were already God's words. The councils merely pointed to them, among other works which were of dubious inspiration, and said "THESE books, and no others among the collected candidates, are the inspired Word of God." That was the function of these councils and the papal ratifications of them. Get it right here. They did NOT "make" the NT books God's Word. They merely declared that those books ARE God's Word. Huge difference!

However, this all serves to underscore my point. Your system has no sensible way to point to the rationale for the canon without acknowledging the early Church Fathers. None. That you cannot even bring yourself to recognize their authority in at least this instance is most instructive to all of us. The Catholic Church, as I've said numerous times here, collected, vetted and canonized the Scriptures, the New Testament of which was written by eight of its members under the inspiration of Almighty God. It alone is the proper custodian and interpreter of the collection we call the Bible, and this office will properly remain with the Church till the end of time.


102 posted on 02/10/2006 8:59:14 AM PST by magisterium
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies ]


To: magisterium
I am asking the following question, not to be facetious, but to understand.

You say the Church (an institution) alone has the custody of and authority to interpret scripture. Right?

[Joshua 1:8]: "Do not let this Book of the Law [Scripture] depart from you mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will become prosperous and successful."

This strongly infers that since each individual has his responsibility to meditate on the words of God's Word all the time so that one might obey them that a study of them on one's own is required - which scope goes far beyond what one's teachers would be capable of providing for him. A personal detailed study of those words by each individual would of course be required in order to understand them so that obedience to them would be possible.

History records that the individual Jew in the Mosiac Law period was expected from youth to memorize and study the Scriptures. And many faithfully did just that. Note that they did have the Levitical Priesthood to minister and intercede for them, yet they assumed the responsibility of study, interpretation and obedience to the Scriptures themselves.

[Cp Ps 1:1-2]:

(v. 1) "Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.

(v. 2) But his delight is in the Law of the LORD, and on his Law he meditates day and night."

[Compare Ps 119: which is an entire 168 verse passage devoted to the praise, study, understanding and following of the Law by the individual. No mention of the responsibility of any appointed individuals other than God Himself was mentioned. Only the careful study of the precepts of God's Word by the individual and God's teaching of them thereby is emphasized, :

(v. 7) "I will praise you with an upright heart as I learn your righteous laws."

(v. 26) "I recounted my ways and You answered me; teach me Your decrees.

(v. 27) Let me understand the teaching of Your precepts; then I will meditate on your wonders."

(v. 94) "Save me, for I am Yours; I have sought out Your precepts."

(v. 95) "The wicked are waiting to destroy me, but I will ponder Your statutes."

(v. 99) "I have more insight than all my teachers, for I meditate on Your statutes."

[Notice that the individual gained more insight into the Word of God than his teachers as a result of his meditation upon them]

(v. 124) "Deal with your servant according to your love and teach me Your decrees."

(v. 125) "I am your servant; give me discernent that I may understand Your statutes."

[Notice that the discernment comes from God not a designated human teacher]

(v. 130) "The unfolding of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple"

(v. 135) "Make Your face shine upon Your servant and teach me Your decrees."

These verses above suggest the image of an individual who is examining the words of God's Word directly and understanding them - with the teaching help of God Himself]

All throughout the scriptures we are commanded to meditate upon, heed to, hearken to and study the word of God for ourselves that we may have understanding of them. We are told that God's people (the believers) are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. We are warned of our duty to discern rightfully the truth from the lies. We will not be held blameless or left with an excuse for not doing so. We will not be able to say Father John told me this or Reverend Doe told me this.

God's word tells us the Holy Spirit will show us ALL things. [Jn 14:26]: "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

If God intended for an institution rather than His Spirit to interpret His word for us, why the obvious commands for us to do it ourselves?

Are we to believe that only a select few men claiming unbroken apostolic succession are the ONLY individuals capable of discerning the truth from scripture and interpreting it for us?

I think what bothers me is there is sufficient biblical evidence stating God intended and made allowances for all believers to rightfully interpret His word but none stating an institution is the sole authority on His word.

In believing this we can become intellectually lazy, biblically illiterate, slothful in our study habits, and even often steal the learning of others in order to hide our own disobedience. If we can boast of anything, let it be we boast of knowing God in His fullness as He shows Himself to us collectively and individually.

103 posted on 02/10/2006 9:38:32 AM PST by PleaseNoMore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies ]

To: magisterium
"Your system has no sensible way to point to the rationale for the canon without acknowledging the early Church Fathers. None. That you cannot even bring yourself to recognize their authority in at least this instance is most instructive to all of us."
___________________________________________________
You place too much deliberative ability on men and not enough on the HOLY SPIRIT.

Would I recognize that the gathering of men recognized the SCRIPTURES for what they were, yes. However, that in no way means that from that instant forward I lost my ability to think, read, pray and meditate. As the church began to pervert the teachings in the SCRIPTURES to their own benefit; adding sacraments, indulgences, purgatory, mariolatry, works based justification etc., these same SCRPITURES exist to guide me in recognizing that the RC Church has lost its way and to show the folly of placing your trust and faith in institutions of men.
104 posted on 02/10/2006 9:40:20 AM PST by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson