Posted on 02/07/2006 5:02:07 AM PST by HarleyD
(excepting in the Superbowl, of course, where I rooted for Pittsburgh)
SD
The real question is who has the correct message? Unless a person has the correct interpretation of God’s word then the message can’t be trusted. The Catholic position on this is well known. There is no unified Protestant position. The only thing they can agree on is the Catholic Church is in error. That’s’ why I asked if you are the infallible interpreter ordained by God to keep everybody straight.
I'm sure no Catholic would complain about Steve Hahn testimony. It certainly has been posted enough.
You probably mean Scott Hahn. And yes, he’s a good source for the Catholic position.
The Lutheran view is NOT that Catholic interpretation of Scripture is wrong; rather (and, of course, the Lutheran position was adopted prior to the Council of Trent) that the Lutheran interpretation of Scripture IS the Catholic interpretation, but that some in the Catholic Church in the early 16th century had abused this interpretation for entirely selfish interests.
The Conclusion to the Augsburg Confession states, in part: "...in doctrine and ceremonies, nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic."
I would agree. But I would also add that when scripture states things like, "Man's steps are ordained by the Lord...", the text is rather clear. Rather than harmonize the verse with others like Augustine, people either shrug their shoulders and say it's a mystery or they'll say it doesn't mean what it states. There is no critical thinking.
Today we see too many people trying to wiggle their way around scripture. We have reach such a point that homosexual "Christians" will simply say that God is love and the scriptures really don't mean what they say. And many simply nod their heads and says we all have a different view on scripture.
I worry about those churches where contravention of Scripture has become virtual doctrine.
You need to back up your question one step and ask "How is it that you are able to recognize your own corruption?"
You don't. You always have been justified. God is just putting on a stage show for His own amusement. Any belief that what you do makes a difference is simply a delusion.
Such is Calvinism.
SD
***Such is Calvinism.***
Yup.
Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
My feeling is that there is ONE right truth about God. Where does one draw the line at errors? Many of us would say certainly homosexuality but what about the worship of Mary? How about the meaning of communion? It really does get quite messy.
We all hold errors to varying degrees. There are two ways we can approach this. The first way is just to ignore the errors and find commonality. While this brings ecumenical harmony, the problem with this approach is that in the end it reduces the gospel to mush. We seek and find the lowest common denominator. The message becomes as some evangelicals recently stated that all Christian churches, indeed all religions, worship the same God in different ways. This is the Tower of Babel revisited and the result of this approach.
The second approach is to slug it out (in Christian love of course). While this seems divisive in the end it causes people to consider each others position and help us, with God's merciful guidance, to find the correct path. The caviot in all of this is one needs to understand that they may be equally guilty of error and the purpose is to examine oneself in light of the scripture.
This second approach isn't popular today in our ecumenical society. Undoubtedly some would point me to "...I am of Apollos, I am of Paul..." verse. However I'm convident that I know what Paul would say to a homosexual Christian or even one that bow their knees to a statue of Mary.
As Dr. E is fond of saying, "There are very few shades of gray."
I didn't say there wasn't ANYTHING mysterious about God. I said there is far more things revealed about God than we care to admit.
If you're comfortable with your own faith, why do you worry about the Catholic Church? This being a thread about Scripture, wouldn't you agree that, whether you agree or not, the belief that Christ is truly present in the communion host has a Scriptural basis?
Please see #271.
The Catholic position on this is well known.
As many of us Protestants will attest to from this site, it depends on which Catholic you ask.
That’s’ why I asked if you are the infallible interpreter ordained by God to keep everybody straight.
And how do you know that I'm not like a Jeremiah sent to tell the people of their errors? Maybe I just a crazy person randomly selecting keys on my keyboard. You just don't know. All I ask is that consider what is being said and check these facts against scripture. When Catholics tell me things that is precisely what I do plus review church history.
I'm not a clever person but I will check things out if given enough time. Like my goof with "Steve" Hahns. ;O)
Excellent we can agree here. So who teaches it? More importantly, where does the Bible tells us we can find the truth?
…but what about the worship of Mary?
Absolutely correct the worship of Mary is an error. And as you have been advised on numerous occasions this is not a teaching of the Catholic Church. To suggest otherwise is just another one of your errors.
And how do you know that I'm not like a Jeremiah sent to tell the people of their errors?
The Holy Spirit told me your not.
Maybe I just a crazy person randomly selecting keys on my keyboard.
Ya think :-)
All I ask is that consider what is being said and check these facts against scripture
Point well taken. That’s why I’m a Catholic and no longer a Southern Baptist
God is three. God is one. The end.
I am dumbfounded how you can sit there with a straight face and tell me there is nothing mysterious about God.
I didn't say there wasn't ANYTHING mysterious about God. I said there is far more things revealed about God than we care to admit.
I asked you, since you denigrated the idea of "mystery" in religion, to explain the Trinity fully. You gave a trite answer.
It's a little too late to get on the "mystery" train.
SD
"You need to back up your question one step and ask "How is it that you are able to recognize your own corruption?""
___________________________________
Read SCRIPTURE, pray, meditate, think.
And what lead you to read that Scripture? Why were you born in a country wher Scriture is avialable, as opposed to some Islamic Republic where it is forbidden?
Well I must admit sometimes I wonder exactly why bother. It's not in my nature to quarrel and sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't just simply go off and sit in a corner reading Augustine or Jonathan Edwards. I start sounding like a tired record spinning round and round. A crabby old (well not that old) man.
While it might seem that I pick on the Catholics a great deal I'm an equal opportunity picker. I cannot simply fathom some of the things Christians say about God. I often wonder if they understand precisely what they are saying. And while this article may seem like I'm attacking the Catholics, please remember this article was posted as a rebuttal to a Catholic article against sola scriptura. I generally post articles that I think are of theological interest or in rebuttal of other articles to present another view. (Please see post 1)
This being a thread about Scripture, wouldn't you agree that, whether you agree or not, the belief that Christ is truly present in the communion host has a Scriptural basis?
Can you find me one passage in the entire word of God that states the bread and wine actually turns into the blood and body of Christ? The Holy Spirit is constantly present with a believer. He is present when we take communion. He is present when we walk down the street. He is present when we go to the bathroom. He is ALWAYS present. The Holy Spirit is sealed in us until the day of redemption. (Eph 1:13)
No I don't believe Christ is present in the communion host. Christ is present in us and this is what the scripture states. Communion is to proclaim the Lord's death until He comes (1 Cor 11:26).
Your question sounds as if you believe that God is with you for communion and not the rest of the week.
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