Posted on 02/06/2006 1:02:10 PM PST by NYer
The Scriptures were given to the Church, Not the other way around. Without the interpretation of the Holy Church, there is only chaos. St. John Chrysotom wrote the first definitive commentary on the Scriptures. Read it some time, it may enlighten it.
You're missing the point...we're not bowing down to the statue, we're engaged in prayer.
Do the members of whatever odd sect to which you belong not kneel when in prayer?
Do you not grasp the simple concept of intercessory prayer?
"One cannot have God as his Father, who does not have the Holy Catholic Church, as his Mother.
St. Cyprian of Carthage"
once again a saying of a Catholic? Wow, well I'm convinced.
I am Eastern Orthodox, not RC. I am referring to The Canon established at Nicea.
Your entire premise of belief is based on individualism. But individualism, in matters of Christian faith, is demonstrably prone to division. It clearly is not what Jesus intended. He formed ONE Church, and promised to preserve it from error all days till the end of time. He did not promise to make all of its members impeccable. You seem to have problems with both concepts, but particularly the latter. You will not understand the providence of God in these matters because you WILL not to understand. God cannot be double-talked as if He were buying a car from a slick used-car salesman, however. I wish you well in your defense when you come before Him, as you evidently know the issues better than your murky and incorrect expositions of your self-teaching would initially indicate. Though you'll reject them, you have my prayers. I don't bother anymore to remonstrate round after round with people who clearly know the arguments Catholicism makes, but maintain a rhetorical style that postures along the lines that they've never heard of such arguments. I sure hope that that is what the Church has in mind by "invicible ignorance," but I'm not too persuaded that the "in" in "invincible" readily applies under those circumstances.
"The Scriptures were given to the Church, Not the other way around. "
And the "Church" still has them. We have several hundred in my church.
"Without the interpretation of the Holy Church, there is only chaos. "
There are 100,000,000 evangelical Christians in China right now. Millions of them are in prison as we speak. Thousands are being tortured this very moment for their witness to Christ. And you call that chaos?
"St. John Chrysotom wrote the first definitive commentary on the Scriptures. "
I've read him. I like him. He isn't Scripture.
WRONG. Anybody who could read, read Latin. It was the universal tongue of educated men, just as French used to be and English is becoming. The scriptures were sifted by learned men - the early Church fathers, some of whom knew the Apostles personally. Ancient tradition has it that Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, was the child who sat in Jesus's lap at the Blessing of the Children -- and he and Polycarp were disciples of St. John.
Most "common men" couldn't read at all. Remember what Thomas Aquinas said in Adore devote, "faith comes by hearing" not by reading. It wasn't until the Reformation and primarily in England (which had an English-literate yeoman class by that time) that reading the scriptures for oneself became a battle cry.
You're also wrong about the Old Testament. In the Mediterranean region the LXX (Septuagint) was used by everyone, including Jesus who quotes from it several times. The Hebrew scriptures are a different canon, they don't contain all the same books.
Yes...read the Didache. These were oral teachings and instructions.
He sat at the feet of St. John. He probably had a better understanding than you and I.
Before 1054 AD there was only the HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Not Roman Catholic, Not Eastern Orthodox.
once again Christianity is not now, nor has it ever been exclusive to catholicism.
Man, they really came out of the woodwork on this thread, didn't they? ;-)
You are wasting your time trying to explain veneration of Saints and reverence of Holy Images to Iconoclasts and followers of a sad little German Monk with bowel problems.:)
That was years before I became a Catholic, BTW. I was an Episcopalian at the time.
If you insist on first hand monitoring of all writings, then you deny the reality of history. There's more direct evidence for Christ and the Church Fathers than there is for Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar.
But, you are right on one point. Then we will see face to face, and know as we are known. Until then, we should diligently apply ourselves to prayer and study.
Uh, before the Great Schism, there was ONLY the Catholic Church. So scratch the "nor has it ever been."
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