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To: Zuriel
How prey tell would you explain the thief beside Christ?
No mention of his Baptism, yet the promise he received from Christ.
My friend God is no respecter of persons, what he does for one, he would do for all.
So either Christ lied, which is a teaching of heresy, or we all have the same treatment. I do believe baptism a necessary step in our Christian walk, but not unto salvation. The scriptures state that God looks upon the heart of a man, do you not think he can see whether or not they are truly repentant without the water baptism?
113 posted on 02/07/2006 5:45:35 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: whispering out loud; Zuriel

"How prey tell would you explain the thief beside Christ?"

I would appeal to a proper understanding of the covenants. Christ made it clear that he had the power on earth to forgive sins, and did so. He operated under the Mosaic covenant. At the time he forgave the thief on the cross baptism in the name of (by the authority of) Jesus Christ had not ever occurred. It began with the advent of the new covenant on the day of Pentecost following our Lord's resurrection. Peter's command in response to the question, "What shall we do" included the imperative to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for (unto) the remission of sins. Sounds inescapable to me. If we are going to elimiate one part of the commandment, why not eliminate repentance as well? Just reorganize the neurons in the brain, and viola, home free!


115 posted on 02/07/2006 7:48:07 AM PST by DX10
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To: whispering out loud
"I do believe baptism a necessary step in our Christian walk, but not unto salvation"

would you have believed God when he said you need to look or would faith be enough

num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Num 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
125 posted on 02/07/2006 3:03:00 PM PST by bremenboy (if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God)
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To: whispering out loud

Before Jesus, no one could enter heaven. That is what we are taught. That because of the sin of Adam and Eve all men are subject to that sin and must suffer death.

Scripture tells us, however, of at least three people who are in heaven. Moses and Elijah appear with Jesus at the Transfiguration, which would seem to indicate that they are both with God in heaven and both with a body and not just their souls.

Enoch was taken up to heaven by God.

Jesus does not fully explain what happened to the thief, other than to promise him a place in paradise. So, we must trust that Jesus, God, had made a special provision for him, just as they apparently did for Moses, Elijah and Enoch. Just as we Catholics believe he/they did for Mary.

I believe in the Holy Writ and believe it is all true and useful for my salvation, but I also believe there is much more to God and His mysteries than what are revealed in it.


162 posted on 02/22/2011 12:03:41 PM PST by Jvette
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