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To: gbcdoj; Dionysiusdecordealcis; bornacatholic
Here's a recent writing on this topic.

We cannot forget that the Church is not merely a way of salvation; it is the only way. This is not a human opinion, but the express will of Christ: he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. This is why we assert that the Church is a necessary means of salvation. No later than the second century, Origen wrote: If anyone wants to be saved, let him come to this house so that he can obtain salvation... Let no one deceive himself: outside of this house, that is outside of the Church, no one will be saved. Of the deluge, Saint Cyprian says: If someone had escaped outside of Noah's ark then we would admit that someone who abandoned the Church might escape condemnation.

Extra Ecclesiam, nulla salus. That is the continual warning of the Fathers. Outside the Catholic Church you can find everything except salvation, Saint Augustine admits. You can have honour and sacraments: you can sing 'alleluia' and respond 'amen' You can uphold the gospel, have faith in the Father, in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit, and preach that faith. But never, except in the catholic Church, can you find salvation.

Nonetheless, as Pius XII lamented little more than twenty years ago, some reduce to an empty formula the need to pertain to the true Church in order to obtain eternal salvation. This dogma of faith is at the root of the Church's co-redemptive activity. It spells out the Christian's grave apostolic responsibility. Among Christ's express commandments is the categorical one to incorporate ourselves in his Mystical Body by Baptism. And our Saviour not only commanded that everyone enter the Church, but also established that the Church be the means of salvation, without which no one can reach the kingdom of celestial glory.

It is a matter of faith that anyone who does not belong to the Church will not be saved; and anyone who is not baptized does not enter the Church. Justification cannot take place after the promulgation of the gospel, without Baptism or its desire, the Council of Trent established.

This is a continual demand of the Church which on the one hand stimulates us to greater apostolic zeal, and on the other manifests clearly the infinite mercy of God with his creatures.

St. Josemaria Escriva, "In Love With the Church", The Supernatural Aim of the Church, 1972

The laxist attitude leads to the following that St. Josemaria observed:

There are many Christians who are persuaded that the Redemption will be completed in all environments of the world, and that there have to be some souls — they do not know which ones — who will contribute to carrying it out with Christ. But they see this in terms of centuries, many centuries. It would be an eternity, if it were to take place at the rate of their self-giving.

That was the way you thought, until they came to “wake you up”.

St. Josemaria Escriva, Furrow, 1, 1986


155 posted on 02/06/2006 11:02:00 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

Please note that in your quotations from Saint Joesemaria, he uses "Church" in an unqualified sense. What you quote from him is irrelevant to the debate at hand because the claim made at Vatican II, in Pius XII, in the 19thc documents I quoted in #152 is that there is salvation outside the visible Catholic Church but there is no salvation outside the Church. The claim is that the Church of Christ that subsists in the Catholic Church (that is, in the local churches whose bishops are in communion with the bishop of Rome), this Church of Christ outside of which no salvation is possible, is not identically coterminous with the visible Catholic Church. Saint Josemaria is referring to the broader sense of Church--I cannot imagine that he was unaware of Mystici Corporis or the 19thc documents I quoted or the 1949 Feeneyite letter. He does not specify "visible Catholic Church" or "formal membership"--the qualifying, specifying terms used in the 1949 Holy Office letter to the Feeneyites or the 19thc documents I adduced in # 152.

You read his letter as if he had specified "visible Church" and thus denied Pius XII, Vatican II etc. I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you employ his words in a narrower (yes, indeed, more rigorist) sense than he seems to have meant them. One cannot be absolutely sure that by "Church" he did not mean "visible Church," but since he certainly knew about the "salvation outside the visible church" doctrine, his failure to specify "visible Church" would seem to indicate that he intended to refer to the Church of Christ that is not strictly speaking confined to the visible, formal boundaries of the churches in communion with the bishop of Rome.


156 posted on 02/06/2006 11:13:01 AM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; Dionysiusdecordealcis; InterestedQuestioner
Yes, St. Josemaria's comments on this are great. Permit me to quote further from the same homily, beginning where your quotation leaves off,
This is a continual demand of the Church which on the one hand stimulates us to greater apostolic zeal, and on the other manifests clearly the infinite mercy of God with his creatures.

This is how Saint Thomas explained it: The sacrament of Baptism may be wanting to someone in two ways. First, in reality and desire, as is the case of those who are neither baptized nor wish to be baptized: which clearly indicates contempt of the sacrament for those who have the use of reason. Consequently those to whom Baptism is wanting thus, cannot obtain salvation: since neither sacramentally nor spiritually are they incorporated in Christ, through whom alone can salvation be obtained. Secondly, the sacrament of Baptism may be wanting to someone in reality but not in desire: for instance, when a man wishes to be baptized, but by some misfortune he is forestalled by death before receiving Baptism. Such a man can obtain salvation without actually being baptized, on account of desire for Baptism, a desire which is the outcome of faith that works by charity, whereby God, whose power is not tied to visible sacraments, sanctifies man inwardly.

God Our Lord denies no one supernatural and eternal happiness, although it is a completely free gift to which no one has a right, especially after sin. His generosity is infinite. It is a matter of common knowledge that those who suffer invincible ignorance of our most holy religion but carefully observe all the precepts of the Natural Law which are engraved by God in the hearts of all men, and want to obey God and lead an upright life, can obtain eternal life through the efficacious action of divine light and grace.

God alone knows what goes on in the heart of each man, and he does not deal with souls en masse, but one by one. No one on this earth can make a judgement about the eternal salvation or condemnation of any individual.

Let us not forget that conscience can be culpably deformed and harden itself in sin, resisting the saving action of God. That is why it is necessary to spread Christ's doctrine, the truths of faith and the norms of Christian morality. That is also why we need the sacraments, all of which were instituted by Jesus Christ as instrumental causes of his grace and remedies for the weaknesses that ensue from our fallen nature. Finally, that is why we need to receive frequently the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist.

The awesome responsibility of all the Church's members and especially of its shepherds is made clear in Saint Paul's advice: I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and in the name of his coming and of his kingdom: Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.


167 posted on 02/06/2006 4:20:45 PM PST by gbcdoj (Let us ask the Lord with tears, that according to his will so he would shew his mercy to us Jud 8:17)
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