Dear gbcdoj,
Vincibility is an interesting topic.
I've seen some folks interpret invincible vs. vincible as whether, in a given set of circumstances, any person could come to knowledge of the truth of the Catholic Church's claims. Thus, we get folks who say that anyone who lives in the United States, or the West, generally, cannot have invincible ignorance, because there are at least SOME individuals, given the circumstances in our society, who can overcome their ignorance. I'm not sure, I don't think you're suggesting that, are you?
My own limited intellect suggests that invincibility/vincibility covers a wide range of issues, including, near the top, the intellectual capacity of the individual. I'm not the dimmest bulb in the box, but I often find these debates approaching the limits of my own intellectual capacity, and sometimes moving beyond those limits.
I imagine there are many folks not born into the Catholic Church who may have even more limited intellectual capacity than I have. It would be unsurprising to me if many of these individuals found themselves unable to decisively choose between the competing claims that they might find on either side of these questions.
That inability, combined with cultural, familial prejudices and other factors, might give rise, in my own opinion, to a lot of invincible ignorance.
To me, vincible ignorance is when an individual withholds from Catholic belief because, even though he senses its rightness, he hides from it to avoid disappointing friends and family, taking on hardship - socially, financially, politically, whatever, or to maintain his position. I've heard it said that Mr. Blair, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, would convert save for his position. I don't know whether that's true or not, but it would seem to me that if that's true, he's actually moved well past ignorance, vincible or not, and is precisely the sort of individual toward whom these teachings are directed.
What do you think?
Dionysiusdecordealcis, I'd appreciate your thoughts, as well.
Thanks,
sitetest
Duh! I aint no beachcomber. Can I still keep my name? :-)
Well, invincible means unconquerable. Theologians define ignorance as invincible when one does due diligence and still cannot overcome it.
Obviously it is not our place to judge that a person's ignorance is vincible; on the other hand it is equally clear that we cannot be certain that one is invincibly ignorant of the Catholic religion. It is an abuse of the Church's doctrine that one who is invincibly ignorant of the truth of the Catholic religion can be saved without formal membership through an implicit desire for formal membership to argue that the absolute necessity for salvation of membership in the Church (through faith, baptism, and submission to the Apostolic See of Rome,) should not be clearly preached to non-Catholics, as it always has been, or that the "Unam Sanctam" does not mean what it clearly says.
Bl. Pius IX says: "as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is 'one God, one faith, one baptism'; it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry."