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To: bornacatholic
I cannot believe the audacity of the statement seeing as how neither the Catholic church, nor a Pope in any form existed in the scriptures. No instead the catholic church wasn't formed until the rule of Constantine, If people research history, they will find there is the beginning of the pope, bishops, rosary beads, and several other catholic sacraments. If catholicism or submission to the pope were necessary for salvation, then no one who died before the rule of Constantine can possibly get into heaven.
10 posted on 02/04/2006 5:47:10 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: whispering out loud; bornacatholic
I cannot believe the audacity of the statement seeing as how neither the Catholic church, nor a Pope in any form existed in the scriptures.

Christ stated that the Church, NOT Scripture should be the final authority:   "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17)  Christ did NOT state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction.  He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity.  In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, NOT Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)  Since the Church alone is mentioned as THE pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture.   For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be EXACTLY THE SAME as there can only be ONE spiritual truth for the plural of the word "truth" NEVER appears in Scripture.  The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has no spot, wrinkle or blemish (Ephesians 5:27).  Christ also stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18).

No instead the catholic church wasn't formed until the rule of Constantine

Scripture clearly points out St. Peter as Christ's representative on earth.  Christ did not ask the other Eleven to feed and tend His sheep.  If you read The Acts Of The Apostles, it is clear that St. Peter leads the Apostles.  Therefore, since the Apostles are to be replaced as they die (Acts 1:20-26), then it follows that whoever succeed(s) St. Peter is leader of the Church.  There is only to be one shepherd of the Church (John 10:16).  For the Apostles did not argue amongst themselves whether there was a "greatest" at all, but who amongst them was THE greatest (Mark 9:34; Luke 9:46).

12 posted on 02/04/2006 6:29:33 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: whispering out loud
No instead the catholic church wasn't formed until the rule of Constantine, If people research history, they will find there is the beginning of the pope, bishops, rosary beads, and several other catholic sacraments. If catholicism or submission to the pope were necessary for salvation, then no one who died before the rule of Constantine can possibly get into heaven.

No, history supports the Catholic Church, actually. Ignatius of Antioch, who lived in the late First Century A.D., a convert to Christianity through John the Apostle, and bishop of Antioch, in a letter to the Christians of Smyrna (present-day Turkey) said:

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.

Also, there are ONLY seven Catholic sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Marriage, and Sacrament of the Sick. The others are part of the Catholic church, but aren't sacraments.

13 posted on 02/04/2006 6:31:07 AM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: whispering out loud
I cannot believe the audacity of the statement seeing as how neither the Catholic church, nor a Pope in any form existed in the scriptures. No instead the catholic church wasn't formed until the rule of Constantine

*Hey, don't knock it.We have made scads of dough due to our audaciousness. We have accumulated wealth to such a degree that we could,ten times over, buy and sell all the crummy countries populated by a majority of protestants.

18 posted on 02/04/2006 7:11:57 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: whispering out loud

You know, you're off base on your citations of scripture, your knowledge of the Catholic Church - and your grammar is awful.

Work on some of these things...then come back for discussion. Audacity? Perhaps your ignorant statements take the prize in that category...


60 posted on 02/04/2006 2:19:23 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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