[Invincibly Ignorant]

Hi netmilsmom,

Just wondering, please don't interpret this post as being some kind of Catholic bash. Why don't ya just go ahead and make him a saint already? Seems as tho most Catholics on FR are for it. I've seen numberous posts to that end. Do you really need to try and justify doing it by whats described in this article?

I wonder this because you can strongly assume but in the end you really can't prove that this particular healing or any healing for that matter was the result of any one particular prayer. Thanx.

[netmilsmom]

To be quite honest with you II, I'm not a really huge fan of JPII. I think he will achieve sainthood just because so many Catholics think highly of him. I'm with you, get it done and overwith and lets stop trying to justify it. The Vatican, however, does have rules that it must follow.

However, I am a really huge fan of Christianity in general and the Catholic Church to be specific. I'm just here to note the crassness of those who just come here to slam doctrine.

I think yours is a very good question. I love it when people want to discuss, not just tell us that we are wrong.

[mike182d]

Why don't ya just go ahead and make him a saint already?

This is because the Church doesn't "make" Saints, it recognizes them. The definition of a "Saint" is a person in heaven and only God can bestow upon a person such a reward.

A great - or perhaps not so great - example is that of Thomas A. Kempis. He wrote one the most insightful and powerful theological works titled: "Imitation of Christ." After his "death," everyone thought he was worthy of sainthood for being able to produce such a magnificent work and so the Holy See (the Vatican) exhumed his body. Upon opening the casket they found claw marks tearing through the wood on the inside of the casket and the bones of his fingers widdled down to nubs; he had been buried alive. So, despite his entire life of holiness, given the new evidence, it was possible that in the last moments of his life he despaired and so the fate of Thomas A. Kempis' soul could not be determined by the Holy See with any degree of certainty. Sainthood isn't a title one normally throws around.

[NYer]

Why don't ya just go ahead and make him a saint already?

At one time, "popular acclaim" sufficed for sainthood. Now the process is more complex. Here's the updated version.

VATICAN CITY, SEP 12, 1997 (VIS) - Today the Holy See Press Office made public the following note on canonical procedure for causes of beatification and canonization:

"1. Canon norms regarding the procedure to be followed for causes of saints are contained in the Apostolic Constitution 'Divinus Perfectionis Magister,' promulgated by John Paul II on January 25, 1983.

"2. To begin a cause it is necessary for at least 5 years to have passed since the death of the candidate. This is to allow greater balance and objectivity in evaluating the case and to let the emotions of the moment dissipate.

"3. The bishop of the diocese in which the person whose beatification is being requested died is responsible for beginning the investigation. The promoter group ('Actor Causae'): diocese, parish, religious congregation, association, asks the bishop through the postulator for the opening of the investigation. The bishop, once the 'nulla osta' of the Holy See is obtained, forms a diocesan tribunal for this purpose. Witnesses are called before the tribunal to recount concrete facts on the exercise of Christian virtues considered heroic, that is, the theological virtues: faith, hope and charity, and the cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance and fortitude, and others specific to his state in life. In addition, all documents regarding the candidate must be gathered. At this point he is entitled to the title of Servant of God.

"4. Once the diocesan investigation is finished, the acts and documentation are passed on to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. The public copy used for further work is put together here. The postulator, resident in Rome, follows the preparation of the 'Positio', or summary of the documentation that proves the heroic exercise of virtue, under the direction of a relator of the Congregation. The 'Positio' undergoes an examination (theological) by nine theologians who give their vote. If the majority of the theologians are in favour, the cause is passed on for examination by cardinals and bishops who are members of the congregation. They hold meetings twice a month. If their judgment is favourable, the prefect of the congregation presents the results of the entire course of the cause to the Holy Father, who gives his approval and authorizes the congregation to draft the relative decree. The public reading and promulgation of the decree follows.

"5. For the beatification of a confessor a miracle attributed to the Servant of God, verified after his death, is necessary. The required miracle must be proven through the appropriate canonical investigation, following a procedure analogous to that for heroic virtues. This one too is concluded with the relative decree. Once the two decrees are promulgated (regarding the heroic virtues and the miracle) the Holy Father decides on beatification, which is the concession of public worship, limited to a particular sphere. With beatification the candidate receives the title of Blessed.

"6. For canonization another miracle is needed, attributed to the intercession of the Blessed and having occurred after his beatification. The methods for ascertainment of the affirmed miracle are the same as those followed for beatification. Canonization is understood as the concession of public worship in the Universal Church. Pontifical infallibility is involved. With canonization, the Blessed acquires the title of Saint."