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To: xzins; betty boop; Alamo-Girl

I'm not catholic, so obviously I agree with your post #94.

The church is where you find it; as the saying goes, God knows who are his own.

Among catholics, as among any subdivision of the church, you will find people who do not know God, and you will find people who are deeply in love with him. And others all along the spectrum between the two. That is as much true of the leadership as the rank and file, that is true of catholic and evangelical churches alike.

Pope John Paul 2 always struck me as deeply Christian; whether you judge that to be because or in spite of his catholic roots depends on your point of view; he was nevertheless in my view a great man and a Christian.

I was worried who would be chosen to replace him, and I have since been pleased that the man who now fills his shoes is another very worthy man, to all appearances deeply Christian himself, and with perhaps even a more profound understanding than his predecessor. It remains to be seen what history will throw at him, and how well he will navigate his ship in the years ahead. But I am pleased with what I see so far.

I have to say this; I could never be a catholic, there are too many things in the official church, in its history, in its organization, in any number of things which were I to convert I would have to accept. But I have always loved catholics, the people themselves, and the "unseen" church that exists alongside the visible one. I have, over the years, often found myself in catholic churches around the world, worshipping there, completely at home.

But that is always the way it is with any human congregation. There is always the flawed visible church, that is hard to live with and hard to defend, and then there is the unseen church that is the real one. You can always spot the people who are members of the latter, I believe. Certainly God knows who they are.


107 posted on 01/29/2006 1:37:01 PM PST by marron
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To: marron; Alamo-Girl; jude24; Kolokotronis
But I have always loved catholics, the people themselves, and the "unseen" church that exists alongside the visible one

A very good sentiment. We are to love fellow Christians wherever they are.

I think of what exactly prevents my being a Roman Catholic and I know that I would have to overcome my theological difference with: immaculate conception, assumption, veration of leadership and of saints & angels, and opulence.

I haven't heard that anyone is interested in accomodating me. :>)

125 posted on 01/29/2006 2:25:40 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: marron; Alamo-Girl; xzins; Kolokotronis; hosepipe
It remains to be seen what history will throw at him, and how well he will navigate his ship in the years ahead. But I am pleased with what I see so far.

marron, it is traditional that the first Encyclical issued by a newly-installed Pope sets the tone and theme of his entire papacy.

With JPII, the great theme was "salvation in Jesus Christ alone" -- with the conscious implication (and rebuke) that World Communism is, essentially, a "heresy." Then along came Ronald Reagan and Maggie Thaatcher, and the next thing you knew, communism bit the dust.

JPII was not a politician per se. But his spiritual insights empowered some very effective, and ultimately successful, politicians.

This Encyclical of Benedict proclaims that "God is Love." Similarly to the case of JPII, there is an active "subtext" at work here: the necessity to defeat Islamofascism. For Benedict says in the Introduction of Deus Caritas Est: "In a world where the name of God is sometimes associated with vengeance or even a duty of hatred and violence, this message is both timely and significant."

Kiddoes, the battle lines are drawn. Stay tuned. :<)

BTW, I don't know whether you're aware of it or not, but JPII and then-Cardinal Ratzinger were very close. JPII was a much-published, world-class philosopher himself, before his election to the Throne of Saint Peter; and of all the members of the Curia of Rome, he found in Ratzinger a true "soul mate." Ratzinger is carrying on the mission established by John Paul II (Sancta Subito!) with seemingly firm purpose, adapting it as necessary to the challenges of our present time.

Above all else, I think that what Pope Benedict most longs for is the unity of Christians, in the face of such challenges. FWIW.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!

133 posted on 01/29/2006 2:40:33 PM PST by betty boop (Often the deepest cause of suffering is the very absence of God. -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: marron
But that is always the way it is with any human congregation. There is always the flawed visible church, that is hard to live with and hard to defend, and then there is the unseen church that is the real one. You can always spot the people who are members of the latter, I believe. Certainly God knows who they are.

I very strongly agree, dear marron!
201 posted on 01/29/2006 10:18:43 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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