Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Dionysiusdecordealcis; gbcdoj; InterestedQuestioner; bornacatholic
loophole of "baptism of desire"

Baptism of Desire is not a "loophole" to the necessity of the Sacrament. It is a way of receiving the grace of the Sacrament prior to the actual reception of the Sacrament. You are speaking in a very loose way here.

Calvin and Jansenius made their peace with such a God, with calling those acts of God, just.

Right here is the root of all your problems. Damnation and salvation are not "acts" of God. They are acts of man either accepting or rejecting what God gives freely to all.

I said this before, and you ignored it.

At death, everyone comes into the presence of God, and is bathed in His divine energies, most especially the energy most constituitive of His Being, His Love, for "God is Love" (1 St. John 4.16). God's Love is experienced by us as fire, for "Our God is a consumming fire." (Hebrews 12.29). This is why we pray:

"Veni, Sancte Spiritus, reple tuorum corda fidelium, et tui amoris in eis ignem accende." - "Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful, and enkindle in them the fire of Thy love." (Roman Missal, Alleluia Chant, Pentecost)

And:

"Ure igne Sancti Spiritus renes nostros et cor nostrum Domine; ut tibi casto corpore serviamus et mundo corde placeamus." - "O Lord, set aflame our reins and our hearts with the fire of the Holy Spirit, that we may serve Thee with a chaste body, and please Thee with a pure mind." (Roman Missal, Prayers Before Mass).

Having been transformed in Christ through divine grace infused into the soul, the blessed see in this fire of Love as the Light of Glory, the vision of Almighty God. "In Thy light we shall see light." (Psalm 35.10)

On the other hand, being deformed in sin, the damned die an eternal death being burned in this same fire. The suffering of the damned is not caused by God, for God loves them and gives them the same light He also gives the blessed. Rather, the different quality of their existence, their suffering, is caused by themselves, having kept themselves apart from Him, and worsening their own first seperation through further crimes.

From this, the middle condition of the unbaptized innocents becomes obvious. They are not wicked, since they are not deformed in actual sin. Therefore, they do not experience the Fire of Love as eternal death out of their own hatred of God. They are also not good, since they exist deprived of grace by their very nature, therefore they cannot see God in His Light since nothing unites them to God. God is not depriving them of Light, they simply do not exist in a condition that would allow them to enjoy it, just as we here on earth cannot see it while clothed in sinful flesh.

Seen this way, its silly to speak of God doing things to them, depriving them of heaven, etc. God deprives no one of anything. Everyone dies, and God reveals Himself to everyone, and the result of this experience for their soul determines their eternity.

To speak of somehow saving all the unbaptized infants means that God must actively intervene to make them accept grace. But this completely destroys the notion of salvation as a gift we either accept or reject by our actions, and makes it something God can impose upon us even against our will or without our will, or by forcibly modifying our will. God then is imposing love of Himself upon us, which is a contradiction, since love must be free, not forced. The very grounding of why we are free and in the image of God is so that we can love if we so choose. Love cannot be imposed.

71 posted on 01/28/2006 11:28:42 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies ]


To: Hermann the Cherusker
To speak of somehow saving all the unbaptized infants means that God must actively intervene to make them accept grace. But this completely destroys the notion of salvation as a gift we either accept or reject by our actions, and makes it something God can impose upon us even against our will or without our will, or by forcibly modifying our will.

*The properties of the soul are will, intellect, and memory. How can an infant be said to have those properties in sufficient amounts to make a choice?

I am confident, literally without reason (mine is an irrational Hope; but, that is the virtue of Hope) that God saves unbaptized infants. So what if I can't supply the theologizing justifying that? I still don't see how that makes me a heretic; especialy when I see the actions of our Popes.

Look, I really respect you and gbc but I think your personal opinions about this matter are off the mark. I also predict (again without any evidence) the Magisterium will tell each side to cool it. That has happened in the past on controversies about Grace.

That said, I will step aside and remain lurking. Y'all are far better qualified to argue this out

72 posted on 01/29/2006 4:13:37 AM PST by bornacatholic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson