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Zen is very meditation based, without much chanting or reliance on Sutra. They seek an individual liberation, although they are sort of Mahayana, in many ways there are Hinyana, especially in the US forms, like the Mountains and Rivers order.

I do not understand how a Catholic Christian can also be a Buddhist 'master.' From what I read of the posts, this Jesuit order is outside the mainstream of Catholic Christianity (? -or do I not understand?) But the Zen Roshi's mentioned are outside of much of traditional Buddhist practice, as is much of American Zen.

Our Temple has often had Zen visitors and we sometimes visit their Zendo. It is a very different experience. Vietnamese Zen and Chinese Chan Buddhists are closer to mainstream Buddhism than American Zen.

A Buddhist is not exclusive. We believe that anyone may earn merit if they show compassion for others and are working to ease the suffering of other sentient beings.It is not exclusive with Christianity.

My failure to understand is that I thought that Christians believed that the only way was through their forgiveness from God.

It seems to me that while Buddhists and Christians can live together and work together and even be friends (I have many good Christian and Catholic friends including a Colubmus Knight) - it just seems like the faith - and especially the priesthood itself - should be one way or the other.

I am born Buddhist and raised Buddhist. I am not Christian and I dont want to convert anyone or to be converted by anyone.

I would not want one of the Abbot at my temple or one of the monks to be both Christian and Buddhist. It just does not seem right.

Too many American Buddhists just think that they can take whatever they want from the the Sutras and Tantra and then go to a psychology book or a movie star or whoever is giving out advice on TV and mix it all together and and call that their religon. I have a Christian friend who calls it "Cafeteria Christianity." Well I do not want there to be "Cafeteria Buddhists," either.

You follow Christ. Good for you!
I follow Buddha. Good for me.

Sangye

Buddha Bless the USA

nice mani wheel

I do not understand how a Catholic Christian can also be a Buddhist 'master.' From what I read of the posts, this Jesuit order is outside the mainstream of Catholic Christianity (? -or do I not understand?) .

They are today. They use to be very orthodox.

But the Zen Roshi's mentioned are outside of much of traditional Buddhist practice, as is much of American Zen.

From what little I understand of Zen, I tend to agree. He is making it up as he goes along, IMHO.

I have a Christian friend who calls it "Cafeteria Christianity." Well I do not want there to be "Cafeteria Buddhists," either.

Though I do not recognize your faith as Truth, I believe it deserves far too much respect for these people to treat it as just another fad. It also has the side effect of contributing to the common prejudice that Americans are shallow and have no respect for foreign cultures. Sad behavior, transparent fad-ism using the soul as an accessory.

I do not understand how a Catholic Christian can also be a Buddhist 'master.' From what I read of the posts, this Jesuit order is outside the mainstream of Catholic Christianity (? -or do I not understand?)

You are correct, though the Jesuits are still mainstream, while not being mainstream. That is, while their views are becoming further and further at odds with the mainstream of Catholicism, they aren't a fringe cult that exists outside the mainstream of Catholicism.

They used to be a great religious order but have since succumbed to liberalism in its most outlandish forms.

Vietnamese Zen and Chinese Chan Buddhists are closer to mainstream Buddhism than American Zen.

It seems like Indian Buddhism sought detachment from desire; Zen Buddhism sought detachment from knowledge; and American Buddhism seeks detachment from authentic Christianity.

W.W.B.D?

My failure to understand is that I thought that Christians believed that the only way was through their forgiveness from God/

That is what Christians believe, that each individual can do nothing to save themselves. Christ, however, instructed us to take up our crosses and follow Him, which was His invitation for us to offer our sufferings to the Father united to His sacrifice, through Him, with Him, and in Him.