Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: NYer; Bohemund
Perhaps you have misunderstood the statement. ALL of these churches are in full union with the Holy Father and the Magisterium! ALL of these churches profess the same faith! The only thing that changes is the manner in which the liturgy is celebrated and even then, ALL of the liturgies MUST contain the same elements, form and structure.

I understood the statement completely. While it's true that the Eastern Rite churches are in full union with Rome, there are theological differences as well. As one Byzantine writer has said:

"An Oriental Rite, therefore, is not just a different way of saying Mass. It is a "special patrimony" with its own feasts and fasts, saints and shrines. It is devotion to the Mother of God without rosaries, devotion to saints without novenas, devotion to the Eucharist without Exposition or Benediction, the observance of Lent without stations of the cross. And what is more important, it is another "genius and temperament," an Oriental ethos from which these ritual and devotional differences flow. 

...

"The Westerner tends to emphasize the moral aspects of the sacramental and spiritual life, the strength received to aid him in his pilgrimage toward his final beatitude. Grace is seen as a principle of meritorious action, restoring to man the capacity for salutary works. The Oriental, however, sees man more as an imperfect similitude of God which grace perfects. His life in Christ is a progressive transfiguration into the likeness of God. Less is said of merit, satisfaction, beatitude, than of divinization, transfiguration, the transformation of man into the image of God.

The last statement describes the Eastern idea of salvation as having much in common with the traditional Protestant idea. Paul writes that we were saved in order to do good works and specifically refuted the meritorious notion that good works were necessary for our salvation.

Yes, the differences are mainly matters of emphasis but, in reality, the supposed divisions among Protestants are mostly matters of emphasis as well.

There is NO comparison, whatsoever, to the separated protestant churches who have gone their own ways, with their own edicts.

The differences are much less than you might believe. Yes, there are Protestant denominations that have completely sold out their faith but there are groups of Catholics who have done the same thing. They may not splinter off and form their own churches but they do have formal organizations and beliefs that separate themselves from mainstream Catholics. The simple fact is that there a lot of people -- both Catholic and Protestant -- who have discarded their faith.

I could also go into great detail about the Catholic Church in Latin America, which has intertwined itself with animism. I have spent a lot of time over the past 2 years working with Latin American immigrants (mostly "officially" Catholic) and yet I still get shocked every once in a while. You may not see this in New York but we certainly do here in Texas. Jesus Christ is not the center of their religion, but rather just one of the major characters. Seek out some Mexican or Guatemalan peasants and ask them about their Nahauls or Maximon or the celebrations of the cofradias. You'll be shocked. Fortunately, newer priests are coming into the region and are working hard to wipe out the animistic traditions.

Some Protestant churches are liturgical while others are not. Some of us are welcoming the renewal of the Holy Spirit across the world (and joining our Catholic brothers and sisters in doing so) while others do not. Some still hold on to legalistic tenets while others are more relaxed. The substantive differences among the most active Protestant groups are not as great as you may have been led to believe.


10 posted on 01/23/2006 1:02:23 PM PST by DallasMike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]


To: DallasMike
The last statement describes the Eastern idea of salvation as having much in common with the traditional Protestant idea. Paul writes that we were saved in order to do good works and specifically refuted the meritorious notion that good works were necessary for our salvation.

Western Catholicism affirms everything the East says. All of their doctors are our doctors as well; the new catechism quotes extensively from the Greek Fathers.

I think it's odd that you think the Eastern approach is more congenial to Protestantism. How much have you read of the Greek Fathers? They don't sound very Protestant to me.

As for the role of works, both East and West are in agreement against the Reformers that "neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

11 posted on 01/23/2006 1:38:56 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: DallasMike; NYer; Bohemund; Kolokotronis
The last statement describes the Eastern idea of salvation as having much in common with the traditional Protestant idea. Paul writes that we were saved in order to do good works and specifically refuted the meritorious notion that good works were necessary for our salvation.

Yes, the differences are mainly matters of emphasis but, in reality, the supposed divisions among Protestants are mostly matters of emphasis as well.

When the Lutheran theologians of Tubingen wrote to Patriarch Jeremias II of Constantinople in the 16th century, the Patriarch rejected the Protestant theory of justification. His response is certainly representative of Eastern theology. For instance, at the 1672 Pan-Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem, it was defined:

We believe no one to be saved without faith. And by faith we mean the right notion that is in us concerning God and divine things, which, working by love, that is to say, by [observing] the Divine commandments, justifieth us with Christ; and without this [faith] it is impossible to please God. [. . .]

We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but through faith which worketh through love, that is to say, through faith and works. But [the notion] that faith fulfilling the function of a hand layeth hold on the righteousness which is in Christ, and applieth it unto us for salvation, we know to be far from all Orthodoxy. For faith so understood would be possible in all, and so none could miss salvation, which is obviously false. But on the contrary, we rather believe that it is not the correlative of faith, but the faith which is in us, justifieth through works, with Christ. But we regard works not as witnesses certifying our calling, but as being fruits in themselves, through which faith becometh efficacious, and as in themselves meriting, through the Divine promises {cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10} that each of the Faithful may receive what is done through his own body, whether it be good or bad, forsooth.

The Eastern Fathers speak similarly of the merits of good works. For instance:

"Ver. 6, 7. 'Who will render to every man according to his deeds, to them who by patient continuance in well doing,' etc. Since he had become awestriking and harsh by discoursing of the judgment and of the punishment that shall be, he does not forthwith, as one might expect, enter upon the vengeance, but turns his discourse to what was sweeter, to the recompense of good actions, saving as follows, Ver. 7. 'To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life.' Here also he awakens those who had drawn back during the trials, and shows that it is not right to trust in faith only. For it is deeds also into which that tribunal will enquire." (St. John Chrysostom, Homily 5 on the Letter to the Romans)

"If I be now summoned to depart this life, may I see you in the radiant glory of the saints, together with all them who are accounted worthy through patience and showing forth of good works, with crowns upon your heads." (St. Basil of Caesarea, Letter 222, to the People of Chalcis) "I exhort you to be mindful of the faith of the Fathers, and not to be shaken by those who in your retirement would try to wrest you from it. For you know that unless illumined by faith in God, strictness of life availeth nothing; nor will a right confession of faith, if void of good works, be able to present you before the Lord." (St. Basil of Caesarea, Letter 295, To Monks)

"Hence meditation on the law is necessary, my beloved, and uninterrupted converse with virtue, 'that the saint may lack nothing, but be perfect to every good works.' For by these things is the promise of eternal life, as Paul wrote to Timothy, calling constant meditation exercise, and saying, 'Exercise thyself unto godliness; for bodily exercise profiteth little; but godliness is profitable for all things, since it has the promise of the present life, and of that which is eternal.'" (St. Athanasius of Alexandria, Festal Letter 11 (339 AD), no. 7)

12 posted on 01/23/2006 9:16:18 PM PST by gbcdoj (Let us ask the Lord with tears, that according to his will so he would shew his mercy to us Jud 8:17)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson