Then the two of you with your neat little one liners concerning the tortured, & heretics of, Luther & ...
To paraphrase, one of you have kicked me in the arse to post as much of Luther & the times he lived & the circumstances in which he found himself as I am able - that includes the bad stuff & for that I do not need the help of either of you; nor from a member of non-reformed party & its charge of personnel corruption & stunted intellect; that with without a whimper from FR (I did the best I could privately - shame on me for cowardice); because (?) it acknowledged Calvin as at least having a worthy case
This with apologies to DrEck & Rnmomo7 Gamecock; I did not intend to imply that you agree with me. It is my desire that I not embarrass any of you three, as to the other two I care not a whit
I don't know if the match I have lit will find it's way into pool of gasoline or a pool of water or something in between.
The devil has his plate full of stuff he can use against the reform 500 years ago
You sit in your comfy sans the trials of that period & judge a brother. Not judging? re-read your posts. Shame, shame, on the both of you.
I believe my anger is righteous, if not make a charge & let’s follow in the Spirit of Matthew 18.
Finally to echo somthing of Luther; I am not drunk.
When you can string two coherent sentences together, then come back to me. I can't figure out what, precisely, your grievance is.
Dahleide, I won't deny you your righteous anger at my judgment of Martin Luther's theonomic excesses. I admit your charge that it is comparatively easy for me, at a distance of 500 years, to "sit in my comfy chair sans the trials of that period & judge a brother".
I freely admit that Luther faced far greater trials than I have ever faced, probably ever will, and likewise any of the GRPL.
My view is just an objective observation from history, nothing more. In Retrospect, and in Principle, I simply believe that John Calvin's advocacy of a Republican form of Church Government was ultimately better and more Biblical than Luther's monarchism or Cromwell's independency, and this is proven in its ultimate Fruits (the Romanists can bring their slanders against Luther for the crushing of the Peasant's Revolt and against Cromwell for his crushing of the Irish Revolt, but what charge can they lay against the Theonomy of Calvin -- that he inspired the American Constitution? They won't get very far with that line of attack).
That is my view, and I hold to it... admittedly in my comfy chair, and at a distance of 500 years.
Is this "unfair" to Luther as a mortal human being, who was doing the best he could with the gifts God gave him under unimaginable difficulties? Perhaps so. But if "hindsight is 20/20", then we'd be fools not to use hindsight. And, in hindsight, I think that Calvin's theonomy is better than Luther's. That's my view, and I'm sticking to it.
Now, if you think that I have unfairly maligned Luther as a Person or as a Pastor, then I will apologize for doing so and recant if I have done so. I can only assure you that such was not my intent. However, and specifically, in considering their respective Theonomy, I believe that John Calvin's theonomy was a better Model for the Reformation than was Luther's, was more Biblical, and has borne better Fruit.
That's one OPie's opinion.
Best, OP
Me either .
It is indeed easy to sit back and assess the perceived failures and error of men like Luther and Calvin from a comfortable chair that has the advantage of seeing the broad landscape they could not.
The arrogance of one, that says he follows the magistrates teachings and reads his scripture through the eyes of the likes of Aquinas, to find error in the man that showed the apostasy of that very legion of people simply shows what real ignorance held in pride looks like.Those that will compromise the reformation to achieve peace or to make themselves look like they have spiritual understanding of what they are intellectually studying is sad.
Luther had an imperfect understanding of the perfect as do each of us. I pray that God give us the courage, the intensity and the wisdom to do as he did in the midst of his enemies and say "here I stand".