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To: HarleyD
I would say P-M should define "believeth on Him" just as soon as you define "cooperate".

You have difficulty understanding what "cooperate" means? It means "work with." Further refinements will be offered as you require.

You and Rutles4Ever would reject the basic belief that God gives grace and man does something.

Would we?

Under your scenario God gives grace but man doesn't have to do anything. He doesn't even have to believe in Christ.

I quote the sentence following your favorite sentence:

Second, there are many more people who, even stating that they are not believers, will obtain eternal salvation. These are people who give Christians an extraordinary example of generosity and rectitude.

I don't define "giving Christians an extraordinary example of generosity and rectitude" to mean he "doesn't have to do anything."

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Further:

the good that they do is already the effect of grace that works in a hidden way in them and I must pray that this grace will one day give them the possibility of being led to an explicit faith.

Again, "the good that they do" in being "extraordinary examples" for us is not "doesn't have to do anything."

Perhaps you remain confused on the central isssue needlessly. The idea is not that everyone ignorant of Christ is automatically saved. It is that some of these may be saved through the working of God's grace, though intellectual facts about Jesus may not be known to one's mind.

Can you see the difference? Don't you believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases?

SD

30 posted on 01/17/2006 12:51:41 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
"It is that some of these may be saved through the working of God's grace, though intellectual facts about Jesus may not be known to one's mind. Can you see the difference?"

What I see is one who would deny that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.

Don't you believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases?

I believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases and He does that through His word. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God.

54 posted on 01/17/2006 4:45:42 PM PST by HarleyD (Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on)
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