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To: klossg
Then right after you were corrected, you continue to dig at your fellow Christians (Catholics) with your "Catholic warning questions:"

I do not mean at all to insinuate Catholics are not Christians, I am pointing to what the focus is on that I have witnessed time and time again in the Catholic church and that is a concentration on the hierarchical structure.

The Pope, Bishops, Priests, Mary, the Apostles, as if these have divinity that is almost equal with Christ's...The mere fact it is taught that Catholics should go to a priest and confess their sin and wait for his blessing or to say "Hail Mary's" to forgive that sin is so contrary to scripture! Christ is the ONLY forgiver of sin and arbiter to bridge the great divide betweem sinful man and God.

Scripture teaches to build a relationship directly with Christ, not with a priest that is a go-between. A priest has NO power to forgive sin or bestow the inheritance only God has to give.

Eps 2:8-9 For by GRACE are you saved through faith; and that NOT of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

86 posted on 01/17/2006 8:09:15 PM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: sirchtruth
sirchtruth,

You are a very concerned individual. It is a bummer that your knowledge of Catholic life is not as open so as to match your concern.

I accept your concern but not your condemnation of our Sacrament of Reconciliation. I want you to know that Priests rarely ask a person to simply say Hail Marys anymore. What they ask a sinner to do is something to help the sinner to try and avoid the sin through God's grace. For example if one confesses talking behind someones back, the Priest might ask the sinner to find a person they talked to while talking behind the other person's back and explain that it was wrong to do so and apologize. But, there is nothing wrong with praying a Hail Mary so that Our Lady will pray for the sinner so that they might obtain the grace to sin no more. The Catholic Church does not teach that Mary or the Priest forgives sin. Never has, never will. That would be false and pathetic.

You need to be less condemning of your fellow Christians. No harm is done by confessing one's sins to another person. Non-Catholics and non-Christians do this all the time when they say sorry or otherwise apologize. Examples of this are throughout the scriptures. It is even part of the Our Father! And, Catholics know that the Priest is there only to represent Christ and regardless of the Priest's personal sins or goodness, it is Christ who forgives their sins. The Priest has no such ability. Through Christ and the Holy Spirit he provides the words of absolution and reminds us that our sins hurt not only ourselves but Christ and the Church. Luther confessed his sins after he broke from the Church. Luther just didn't want Reconciliation to be a sacrament. He saw the goodness of confessing one's sins. Also, you point out Eph 2:8-9 but what about all the scripture that backs Reconciliation through the Church. As Christ said to the Apostles in Matt 18:18 "Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." See also, Matt 6:15, John 20:23

You calling out Eph 2:8-9 would be better called out if we were arguing about not needing Jesus to redeem us. You suddenly shifted from the present article and who is saved via Morali's statements, and act as if I was arguing the Pelagian position against St. Augustine and yourself.

You are shifting the focus in an attempt to smear your fellow Christians and avoid your error. I understand, as I am a sinful Christian as well. So, out of charity and hope I will respond to your shift toward a global condemnation of Catholics based on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. No, I'd never argue as a Pelagian and think that I have the ability to achieve goodness or heaven without Christ and his grace! Similarly Catholics would not argue against St. Augustine as a Donatist who held that sinful Bishops/Priests/Deacons could not baptize (or provide other valid sacraments).

Please do not believe those who teach that Catholics base their salvation on their works or on anyone other than Christ. This is an attempt by the sin of pride to divide us Christians. It is the same pride that separated our parents Adam and Eve from God's love. If either of us had the logic or power to condemn the other as God condemns, there would be no need for Christ to have redeemed us. Catholics would have run a long time ago to the Protestant faith. It is our souls that are on the line, who wants to live in ignorance when our very souls are in the balance. So, I say cling to your faith and love your neighbor, including us Catholics who are on the same path as you. We want to do good with God's grace even if sometimes we say Hail Marys.
90 posted on 01/18/2006 8:00:41 AM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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