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To: sirchtruth

"Does Good will equal salvation?"

Well, let's look at that question carefully. Let's presume you are talking about truly good will, not self-deceiving rationalization. Could truly good will come from the devil? Is not God the author of all good things?

Next question: Is it possible to have a good will apart from Christ? No.

But is it possible to have a good will without knowing the name of Christ? Well, there's Moses and Abel and the prophets...

OK, could a gentile have a good will without knowing the name of Christ? Well, there's the three wise men, Naomi, Cyrus of Persia, and in the opinion of the Church fathers, even such people as Plato, "the prophet to the Greeks."

OK, could a gentile born after Christ have a good will without knowing the name of Christ? Well, now we have a problem with sola scriptura, since there are no people in the bible who lived after Christ who were not known of by the Christians who wrote the bible. But if we know that Moses was redeemed without knowing the name of Christ, on what basis can we assert that a just person who sought righteousness, but was born in Indonesia in AD 35 could not be redeemed without knowing the name of Christ?

The reason the question is a prickly one is because the natural follow-up question: If people can be redeemed without knowing the name of Christ, why should we teach people about Christ?

Well, for starters:

1. Jesus told us to.

2. Christians, a knowledge of Christ, and most significantly, the grace given through the sacraments, are means of avoiding sin. A person may discern God's will through nature (Romans 1), but such graces as the Church confers are means to discern that will clearer, combat temptation, and resist the confusion and lies of Satan.

3. Jesus is a healer of souls. Does compassion not compel us to heal the sick?

4. The church is the means through which Jesus acts that the souls who go to Hades without knowing Him will be raised up to Heaven. "Apon this Rock I shall build my Church, and the Gates of Hades shall not withstand it." Bringing people to Jesus strengthens the Church.

5. Luther chopped this out of the bible, so Protestants don't like to hear this, but God actually likes us to participate in atonement for sin (2 Maccabees). Such a participation makes us understand better God's love for us. That is why (even in the censored, Protestant bibles) Jesus commands those who would follow him to take up their crosses. If atonement has an effect, is the world not better if there is less to atone for?

6. By spreading the word, reducing the sins that must be atoned for, and bringing an opportunity to respond to God's love to all people, we allow Jesus to act through us to establish the Kingdom of Heaven.


28 posted on 01/16/2006 2:52:20 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

>> 6 <<

And yes, it is Jesus who is the author of our will to allow his work... I do not use the phrasing "we allow Jesus" to suggest that our action is more important than Jesus', but because the listing of our actions requires grammatically to make "we" the subject of the sentence.


29 posted on 01/16/2006 2:55:58 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

IMHO, I wouldn't go so far as to deny good of those who fail to have faith in Christ,...it's merely they have a knowledge of good and evil that isn't required for a relationship with God. On the contrary, many do-gooders confuse morality with having faith. I suspect there may be more carnal Christians and unbelievers who have succombed to a counterfeit God of good works due to their own intentions rather than a simple faith in Christ in even the least of things and will be quite surprised at either the bema seat or the Great White Throne Judgment.


34 posted on 01/16/2006 3:26:45 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: dangus
If you spoke in terms of scripture I might be able to understand what you're trying to point out, but your post is the whole point of my query and a great example of Catholics focusing on extraneous stuff that has NOTHING to do with leading people to Christ, only to Catholicism.

I'm not saying what you wrote is bad, or wrong, it would just take a theologian or a philosopy professor to understand it. Compare what you wrote to John 3:16.

62 posted on 01/17/2006 4:22:24 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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