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To: topcat54; RnMomof7
Which underscores the point, of those at the cross, if they believed on Christ then they would receive forgiveness of their sins. Not until.

I guess Jesus was not omnipotent. His ability to forgive men was conditional upon their ability to see their sin and repent of it?

Jesus called upon his Father to forgive them "for they know not what they do." Now you have two possibilities. Either they knew what they were doing, and thus Jesus was a liar, or they did not know what they were doing, and Jesus forgave them.

It's your choice.

I think we've beaten this horse to death. The bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.

227 posted on 01/13/2006 4:26:00 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; RnMomof7
Jesus called upon his Father to forgive them "for they know not what they do." Now you have two possibilities. Either they knew what they were doing, and thus Jesus was a liar, or they did not know what they were doing, and Jesus forgave them.

At least two.

The other possibilites are that:

- Jesus was addressing only the soldier mentioned at the end of the same verse, "Then Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.' And they divided His garments and cast lots." It could be perhaps He was simply speaking of the Roman soldiers.

- Jesus was speaking only about the Jews who were following the leadership in ignorance. Obviously all the leaders knew exactly what they were doing to Christ. Just compare this to the parable in Matt. 21 where Jesus said, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it." They were hardly innocent. "Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet." (Matt. 21:45,46)

But regardless, it does not mean they were ever forgiven of this one sin apart from total forgiveness in Christ. That would violate the sense of the rest of the Bible, as you have yet to dispute from the Scriptures.

It's your choice.

Certainly not as cut and dried as you make it to be. I don't wish to ignore the rest of the Bible to make some triffling theological point.

229 posted on 01/13/2006 4:40:12 PM PST by topcat54
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