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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; annalex; HarleyD
Unlike the thief, whose sins were remitted moments before his death, most of us leave this life with a baggage of unrepented sins.

Not only sins, but as our Eastern brothers would agree, our theosis is incomplete for most of us before our death. Really, will a prideful Joe go right to the Father and share fully as meant by the Lord in His divine nature upon his death? I really doubt he would WANT to, upon seeing the holiness of God "face to face". We will recognize, to our shame, how much we need Purgatory, God's last great mercy offered to His creation.

Only a Reformed would think that simply by mumbling "Lord, Lord" one can enter unclean into the Kingdom of God.

Your thinking of the other Protestants, Kosta. The Reformed group don't even have to do that much, apparently...

Regards

8,421 posted on 06/12/2006 5:10:47 PM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
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To: jo kus; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; annalex; P-Marlowe
Really, will a prideful Joe go right to the Father and share fully as meant by the Lord in His divine nature upon his death? I really doubt he would WANT to, upon seeing the holiness of God "face to face".

Hmmm....and how long will a person be in purgatory? Are the 5,150 saints out of purgatory now and in heaven?

As William Webster explains in The Church of Rome at the Bar of History (Carlisle, Pennsylvania: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1995):

Though Catholic apologists often quote men like Tertullian and Origen referring to something resembling Purgatory, what they believed in was only an early form of the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory, which would still take centuries longer to develop into what it is today. The earliest post-apostolic writers, who predate Tertullian and Origen by about a hundred years or more, had no concept of a Purgatory.

Clement of Rome, the earliest of the church fathers, writes about Peter, Paul, and some deceased Corinthian presbyters being in Heaven:

Papias, a Christian of the late first and early second centuries, wrote concerning Christians and the afterlife:

Papias refers to different degrees of reward in Heaven (1 Corinthians 3:11-15), but says nothing of Christians suffering in Purgatory.

Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, wrote:

When Polycarp died as a martyr, an account of his martyrdom was written and circulated among the churches afterward, part of which reads:

Catholic apologists may attempt to avoid the implications of these comments by suggesting that these people were viewed as going right to Heaven only because they died as martyrs. However, the concept that martyrs would not have to go to Purgatory is a later concept, one which we can't read back into the writings of this time. And not all of the people mentioned in the comments above died as martyrs anyway. The earliest post-apostolic Christians, like the apostolic Christians, did not believe in a Purgatory.
8,424 posted on 06/12/2006 5:31:36 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luk 24:45)
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To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; annalex; HarleyD
You're thinking of the other Protestants, Kosta. The Reformed group don't even have to do that much, apparently...

Oh, well...I give them too much credit.

8,436 posted on 06/12/2006 8:33:07 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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