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To: Agrarian; Kolokotronis
I've read other pieces which claim that the idea that the soul is immortal is a minority view in Orthodoxy [Koloktronis, Post #8,290)

Only God is immortal by nature -- or at least that is what I have always been taught in my life as an Orthodox Christian

St. John Chrysostomos writes:

and St. Gregory Palamas says the following:

Summarizing the Orthodox view:

Clearly, the immortality of the soul is tied to the after-life we associate with salvation. The soul continues to "live" after the body dies. For the repentant, the soul is safeguarded by the angels, and for the unrepentant...

The serpent in Gensis tells Eve "surely you will not die." This is the ultimate deception, for the soul will not die, but the "life" it will assume will be worse that being dead.

One thing remains unclear, however: if we are to retain our free will, there also must remain in us a potential to fall from grace (again). For the immortality which God desired for mankind is only a potential hinged on our right choices, based on our free will, and not on lack of it.

However, we are told that this will not happen, which can only mean that we will lose our free will and the whole paradigm falls apart. I am sure the Calvinists would find this "refreshing."

8,335 posted on 06/10/2006 7:19:22 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Agrarian

" St. John Chrysostomos writes:

"The soul is of course a creation of God, but it is incorporeal, rational and immortal." (John Chrysotsomos, On the Statues, Homily 11,2 PG 49,122. On I Corinthians, Homily 39,3 PG 61,335. On Genesis, Homily 13,1 PG 53, 106f)

and St. Gregory Palamas says the following:

"The soul of each man is also the life of the body that it animates...Yet the soul has life not as an activity [as animals do] but also as its essence, since it is self-existent; for it possesses a spiritual and noetic life that is evidently different from the body's...Hence when the body dissolves the human soul does not perish with it but it continues to exist immortally, since it is not manifest only in relation to something else, but possesses its own life as its essence. (St. Gregory Palamas, Philokalia, "Topics of Natural Science and Theological Science", #32).

Summarizing the Orthodox view:

The "immortality of the soul is not a natural attribute; it is a gift of the grace of God." ("Free Will and Death, Orthodoxinfo.com)"

This is exactly what I have been taught and have always believed. When I first came across this idea that the soul is not immortal, in Kalomiras I think, I was astonished. Perhaps the snip from Orthodoxinfo, not my favorite source nor one which I find particularly reliable given its pedigree, explains this idea, namely that the soul being created is not naturally immortal, but rather immortal as a gift of God. I don't find that very satisfying at all. On the other hand, the Fathers speak continually about a spiritual death, which would seem to fly in the face of spiritual imortality on the surface of things. That said, even that is far too simplistic. It seems to me that spiritual death is separation from God while "immortality" is everlasting life with God. But in both instances, there is no end to the state we put ourselves in.

A, maybe you can explain this "the soul is not immortal" concept in a way my simple peasant mind can understand. :)


8,341 posted on 06/10/2006 9:27:14 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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