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To: annalex
Justification by faith alone is true (Rom.4:5) Romans 4:5 speaks of work for reward, such as works for hire. If you ever bother reading Romans to the end, you will find plenty exhortations to do works of charity.

Oh, cut it out! None of those exhortations to charity have anything to do with ones salvation, and that is the point that Paul is making by saying that works have nothing to do with salvation, they have to do with showing ones salvation

The 'goats' in Matthew 25 are unbelievers not believers (sheep). They show their unbelief by their works. The point remains, the goats are goats because they do not do good works, and they are condemned to hell. Hence, good works, in addition to faith, are what makes you a sheep.

No, they are goats because they did not believe and they show that they unbelievers by their lack of good works.

Nowhere in that passage (or any other one) do you get the idea that salvation is dependent on works, it is always a result of it.

8,236 posted on 06/08/2006 5:10:50 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration; jo kus
To your both 8234 and 8236

have not been born again

"Born again" is "baptized". Read the entire discourse with Nicodemus in John 3.

Regarding Matthew 25:14-30, David Cloud writes

What he writes is incomprehensible nonsense not related to Matthew 25.

you have never read the Pauline Epistles

The Pauline epistles teach the very same thing: salvation is by grace through faith sustained by good works. No part of the New Testament cotradicts another. If you believe that St. Paul contradicts St. Matthew, or St. James, then you do not understand St. Paul. For example, Ephesians 2 indeed explains that salvation comes by grace through faith, but it also calls us to "walk good works" while avoiding pridefulness. This is a perfectly Catholic thing that St. Paul is saying there. It would also be useful for you to read therest of the letter, and find, for example, that we are to "walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called", "kind one to another; merciful, forgiving one another", "walk in love", -- just like the Church teaches.

You continue to say

None of those exhortations to charity have anything to do with ones salvation, and that is the point that Paul is making by saying that works have nothing to do with salvation, they have to do with showing ones salvation

This is not contained in the epistles. Work for reward and work mandated by law is explained to be not salvific; but work of charity is exhorted as salvific. If St. Paul meant to sweep up all the works as unrelated to justification he would not habitually segue into such exhortations in every letter right after he speaks of lack of salvific merit in works of reward and law. For example, St. Paul calls for virtuous life in Ephesians 5:1-4, then concludes "understand, that no fornicator, or unclean, or covetous person (which is a serving of idols), hath inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Seems that works of purity and marital duty are exactly that, salvific.

they are goats because they did not believe and they show that they unbelievers by their lack of good works.

What prevented Christ from saying so, if that is the case? What about the preceding parable in Matthew 25, where it is shown that it is what you do with your talent of faith, not the possession of it, that counts for salvation.

8,253 posted on 06/08/2006 7:18:00 PM PDT by annalex
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