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To: HarleyD; kosta50; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration; Forest Keeper; jo kus

"That does raise a question in my mind. I believe in all our discussions it has been the position of Rome that Councils were only meant to affirmed what beliefs were held by the Church."

Not really; that's far, far too simplistic. Whether or not the whole Church always believed something may or may not have to do with it. The writings of the early Fathers are full of speculations which were accepted or rejected by the councils and in any event, in the end its up to the people to affirm a dogmatic pronouncement (though this isn't accepted in the West).

"Where there are two differences, one is correct and one is heretical."

Oh that's not true at all. Often what appear to be differences are only in how we talk about things. In other cases, the Western dogma of the Assumption being an example, dogma in the West may only be theolougemenon in the East. The areas of doctrine, discipline and praxis are filled with differences which could be dealt with by a council but have nothing to do with heresy.

"While it is my understanding the Orthodox use of the Council in this fashion, Councils were never used this way under the Roman Catholic Church-or so we've been told. Under this scenario, if Rome admits to using a Council in this fashion, it calls into questions ALL Councils, since the purpose of the Council (as we've been told) is underminded.'

Sorry, wrong again. Western Councils have often refined dogmatic, doctrinal and praxis points. The problem, by the way, evaporates when one takes the position that non ecumenical councils are by their nature local and therefore binding only on the particular church which is holding it.

"Either the purpose of the Council is to affirm what the early church fathers believed which makes the Orthodox view in the Roman Catholic Church heretical, or the Council purpose is to reconcile and establish doctrine which means they can't point back to a Council to state an affirmation of a belief."

Where does this come from. You've set up a wholly false dichotomy, Harley.

"If the answer is that a Council does both, then the argument calls into question any decision by the Council."

Why? I'm not following you at all. On the other hand, Kosta is right. Most of Protestantism will have nothing to do with what The Church does in a great council.


7,709 posted on 06/04/2006 6:30:57 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; HarleyD
Sorry, wrong again. Western Councils have often refined dogmatic, doctrinal and praxis points. The problem, by the way, evaporates when one takes the position that non ecumenical councils are by their nature local and therefore binding only on the particular church which is holding it.

Good point. This is why the West binds themselves to the doctrines of the Immaculate Conception, while the East does not - although there are likely Easterners who believe what the West has formulated. Thus, the East is not considered heretical for not following the Ecumenical Counciliar decisions that followed the Great Schism.

Regards

7,723 posted on 06/04/2006 2:14:39 PM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
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