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To: fortheDeclaration
Like the salvation of Lot?

What about it?

Only one time Righteousness being imputated to Abraham, Gen.15?

You forgot Genesis 12 and Genesis 22. Hebrews 11 says that Abram, by faith, WENT to the Promised Land - thus, being justified. James 2 says that Abraham was justified during the sacrifice of Isaac.

I am not impressed with Scofield notes, thanks. The Angel at Abraham said "NOW I SEE..." Faith without works is dead. What more can I say? You continue to ignore the fact that the Bible doesn't reward people for being justified in the eyes of man. Scofield and the rest of Protestant eigesis is flat-out wrong. We are justified in God's eyes. HE is the one who saw Abraham's sacrifice and considered Abraham righteous during that ACT of FAITH. Man didn't see Abraham's sacrifice! Just as God desires to SEE Abraham's faith, God desires to see our faith by works of love. Loveless faith cannot save.

Regards

7,603 posted on 06/02/2006 6:50:32 AM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
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To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg
Like the salvation of Lot? What about it? Only one time Righteousness being imputated to Abraham, Gen.15? You forgot Genesis 12 and Genesis 22. Hebrews 11 says that Abram, by faith, WENT to the Promised Land - thus, being justified. James 2 says that Abraham was justified during the sacrifice of Isaac.

Yes, but it doesn't say that Abraham had any Righteousness imputated to him for it!

The word Righteousness only shows up once for Abraham, and that in Gen.15:6, in fact, it is the first time the the word is used in the Bible

Abraham obeyed God in Gen.12, but he still had not believed in God and been saved until Gen.15.

You are reading into those verses what is not there.

I am not impressed with Scofield notes, thanks. The Angel at Abraham said "NOW I SEE..." Faith without works is dead. What more can I say? You continue to ignore the fact that the Bible doesn't reward people for being justified in the eyes of man. Scofield and the rest of Protestant eigesis is flat-out wrong. We are justified in God's eyes. HE is the one who saw Abraham's sacrifice and considered Abraham righteous during that ACT of FAITH. Man didn't see Abraham's sacrifice! Just as God desires to SEE Abraham's faith, God desires to see our faith by works of love. Loveless faith cannot save.

Well, if you are not impressed with the Scofield note, how about the Roman Catholic NAS note?

2.14-26. The theme of these verses is the relationship of faith and works (deeds). It has been argued that the teaching here contradicts that of Paul (see espically Rom.4,5-6). The problem can only be understood if the different viewpoints of the two authors are seen. Paul argues against those who claim to participate in God's salvation because of their good deeds as well as because they have committed themselves to trust in God through Christ Jesus (Paul's concept of Faith). Paul certainly understands, however, the implications of true faith for a life of love and generosity (see Gal. 5,6:13-15) The author of James is well aware that proper conduct can only come about with an authentic committment to God in faith. Many think he was seeking to corect a misunderstanding of Paul's view' (NAS,1398)

Even this footnote, in a RCC bible states that Paul is arguing against those who claim to be saved because of the works they are doing, making the works equal with the faith.

Faith is the root from which good works grow out of, but good works add nothing to salvation, they only show it.

Now, would a bible with a picture of a Pope on the cover mislead you?

7,610 posted on 06/02/2006 11:09:11 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg
James 2 says that Abraham was justified during the sacrifice of Isaac.

He is justified, but not before God, but before other man, becoming a great hero of faith in history.

The quote regarding his righteousness is from Gen.15:6, and thus, Abraham showed the righteousness that had been imputed to him in Gen.15:6.

Still nothing on Lot?

Peter calls him 'righteous' and 'Just'. If it weren't for the NT, we would never think he was a saved man by his works

The Angel at Abraham said "NOW I SEE..." Faith without works is dead. What more can I say? You continue to ignore the fact that the Bible doesn't reward people for being justified in the eyes of man. Scofield and the rest of Protestant eigesis is flat-out wrong. We are justified in God's eyes. HE is the one who saw Abraham's sacrifice and considered Abraham righteous during that ACT of FAITH. Man didn't see Abraham's sacrifice! Just as God desires to SEE Abraham's faith, God desires to see our faith by works of love. Loveless faith cannot save.

That Angel was God Himself, so He always knew what Abraham would do.

Unless you are denying God's Omniscience?

It is a figure of speech, that relates the event to God's appreciation of it.

As for 'seeing' it, well, Angels certainly saw it and Peter says that we are observed by angels who want to learn of our great salvation (1Pe.1:12)

Mankind certainly learned of it as well.

Now,as for the statement, 'God desires to see our faith', that is correct, but that has nothing to do with our salvation, that has to do with our growth, which glorifies God.

Works have nothing to do with getting saved, or even staying saved,(Acts.15), they only are a result of being saved.

7,611 posted on 06/02/2006 11:21:31 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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