That is how I see you defend your concept of "the Bible has determined and interprets itself". Basically, it is a circular argument and presumes something that is not proven by itself - that it IS from God. EVERY BOOK!
My main disagreement with you is that I believe that God gets all the ultimate credit and glory for the creation and assembling of the Bible.
Yes, but that is not the point of discussion. You are merely steering the conversation away from my attack on your illogical point of view. The point is not "who gets the credit", the point is that without the Church, we wouldn't know what IS Scriptures. God has not chosen to reveal it in any other way then THROUGH the Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth. St. Augustine himself said that "if it were not for the Catholic Church, I would not believe the Gospels". This means that SOMETHING has to vouch for God's Word. God doesn't give it in a manner that ALL men will see the OBVIOUS WORD of God. Don't you realize that many people do NOT believe that Christian Scriptures are from God? They are NOT self-attesting. You either believe the Church's witness or you don't. God gets credit because HE ESTABLISHED the Church...
Jesus said He will send HIS SPIRIT to the Church to ensure that it remains the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. Men by themselves are not infallible. God is and it is GOD who is responsible for making men in certain situations infallible. Thus, I don't claim that the "Church alone" gets "all" the credit... But God has decided to leave us with a "Supreme Court" that can interpret His revelation how and when HE sees fit.
Your arguments have carried the distinct implication that we Protestants OWE "your" men for the Bible itself, and that THEREFORE whatever "your" men say about it MUST be correct.
I am merely pointing out the facts of how we can know the Truth. I haven't said you owe us anything. I believe what is happening from your side is an adamant denial of connecting the Catholic Church with what Christ established. You will use any argument to circumvent the necessity of the Church so as to continue to use private interpretation of a book that you PRESUME is God's Word without any witness! By doing away with the Church, God's instrument of truth, you can maintain your own ideas of God and how to worship Him.
By logically approaching Christianity from an unbiased position, one becomes Catholic, or one does not become Christian. There is no argument that supports Protestantism's separation from God's Church. A person deep in history eventually will see the fallacy of the Protestant's position. Denying the instrument of truth established by God is a rejection of God - according to the Scriptures.
There is NOTHING wrong with questioning theological issues that have been left undefined. But if you believe that Scriptures are from God, are inerrant, then why do you refuse to believe that "the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth"? Does the Bible say private interpretation is acceptable? Sure, question things. But obey once the Church has formulated doctrine as given it by the Holy Spirit. Part of having God as your king is to obey your king. Are you obeying God or yourself?
That is my area of contention with Protestants. Question. But when the Church says something - we obey, as if God Himself is commanding us. We humbly submit ourselves to God's Will, even if we don't fully understand.
Regards
Really. So, I guess all of the hundreds of millions of us Protestants in the world all approach Christianity either illogically or with a bias? OTOH, all of you Catholics approach Christianity quite logically and without bias? Well, whatever office you're running for, I hope you're a Republican. :)
There are many arguments that support the Protestants' separation from the Roman Catholic Church, of course we never left God's Church. Perhaps the main one from me can be found even in your statement, your claim to ownership of God's Church. I see in Catholicism the greatest emphasis on the power, importance, and greatness of men. In each of these cases, I see God being made less in order that man can become more. My "private" interpretation of the scriptures says that just the opposite should be happening. I suspect that this idea is one of the very reasons the Reformation came about.
But obey once the Church has formulated doctrine as given it by the Holy Spirit. Part of having God as your king is to obey your king. Are you obeying God or yourself? ... But when the Church says something - we obey, as if God Himself is commanding us. We humbly submit ourselves to God's Will, even if we don't fully understand.
Well, if I use your framing, then I do not believe the RCC is God or speaks for God. Therefore, I cannot obey the RCC. I obey God and His word instead of the RCC.